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14 Nov 2008

QUOTE:  “A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done.” ~ Vince Lombardi

FROM GREG BISHOP OF THE NEW YORK TIMES…  As always, Eric Mangini met Bill Belichick at midfield, and dozens of cameras zoomed in on their postgame handshake. Mangini held on for a second longer than his mentor, held on with two hands, as if he wanted this handshake to last forever. Minutes later, he asked reporters how they were doing, before answering his own question, rapid fire in response. “I’m doing great,” Mangini said. “I’m doing great.” This is as giddy as Mangini gets, his mood dictated by the crazy twists this game took and his team’s ability to overcome the blown leads and a blown-up secondary to secure first place in the American Football Conference East with a 7-3 record. The Jets had spent a lifetime in the shadow of the Patriots, continually bullied, battered and beaten by the organization they modeled themselves after. Since the Jets won twice against the Patriots in 2000, New England had won 13 of the last 16, 11 of 12 and 4 straight against the Jets. This seemed to mark the Jets’ best chance at reversing the trend.

What a game last night.  By the end of it, Kerry Rhodes, the safety from the Jets, proved to be right when he said, “Every time we play these guys we make more mistakes than they make and we lose.”  And last night—finally—the Patriots were the team that made too many mistakes in the game.  Dropping coverage in overtime on a 3rd and 20 was a killer; getting nailed for a defensive holding penalty in the red zone, which gave the Jets another set of downs, was another killer.  Bad kick coverage, too many mental mistakes, and the Pats gave the Jets the game.  Let me be clear here:  the Jets played a great game, gave them a great fight, and had control for moments of the game.  Favre and the Jets had all the answers for the Patriots defense, which seem to be unable to ever shut down their attack.  Dustin Keller was a match-up problem for the Patriot safeties, and along with running back/returner Leon Washington, the Pats defense could not find any answers.  When you allow over 500 yards in less than 30 minutes of offense, it seems like you are going to lose.  But the Jets showed toughness and seized the moment when they had the opportunity.  They fought and even though they let the Pats back in the game, they came back to make the plays in overtime.  This was a great win for the Jets and now each game gets harder and harder.  Getting your 39-year-old quarterback some rest at this point of the season is a great perk. 

FROM MIKE REISS OF THE BOSTON GLOBE…  Game notes from the Patriots 34-31 overtime loss to the Jets, courtesy of the team’s media relations department:  PATRIOTS HAVE MOST TOTAL NET YARDS IN A GAME SINCE 1979: The Patriots gained 511 total net yards against the Jets (386 passing, 125 rushing), marking the franchise’s highest offensive output since gaining a franchise-record 597 total net yards on Sept. 9, 1979, against the Jets. New England’s 511 total net yards stand as the fourth-highest single-game total in team history.  Last season, the Patriots’ season high was 510 total net yards at Buffalo on Nov. 18, 2007. CASSEL IS FIRST PLAYER SINCE 1970 AFL-NFL MERGER TO TOTAL AT LEAST 400 PASSING YARDS AND AT LEAST 60 RUSHING YARDS IN A GAME:  Matt Cassel threw for 400 yards and ran for 62 yards, becoming the first player since the 1970 AFL-NFL merger to have 400 or more passing yards and 60 or more rushing yards in a game. Only one other time since 1970 has a player had at least 400 passing yards and at least 50 rushing yards in a game. Steve Young of the San Francisco 49ers had 449 passing yards and 50 rushing yards against Buffalo on Sept. 13, 1992. Young and the 49ers lost that game, 34-31 - the exact same score by which Cassel and the Patriots fell to the Jets. Cassel was also the first player in Patriots history to have 300 or more passing yards and 50 or more rushing yards.  CASSEL HAS MOST RUSHING YARDS FOR A PATRIOTS QUARTERBACK IN 30 YEARS:  Matt Cassel had 62 rushing yards on eight carries tonight to lead the Patriots in rushing. His 62 rushing yards are the most by a Patriots quarterback in a game in more than 30 years, dating back to Sept. 24, 1978, when Steve Grogan had 65 rushing yards on six carries in a 21-14 win over the Oakland Raiders. Cassel’s 62 rushing yards are the most in a game by any Patriots quarterback other than Grogan, and the 62-yard performance stands as the sixth-highest single-game total for a quarterback in Patriots history. Grogan holds the franchise record for rushing yards by a quarterback with a 103-yard performance (on seven carries) against the New York Jets on Oct. 18, 1976.

After last night, I am convinced the Patriots will have to Franchise Matt Cassel this off season for two reasons.  (1) He is a legitimate asset.  He continues to improve each week and he continues to be one of the best players on the field no matter who he plays.  Does he need to keep improving?  Yes, but he is so well coached and his taking to coaching each week.  Why would the Patriots just let him walk and not get something in return for his services?  (2) No one knows what the medical status of Tom Brady will be after he starts to play.  Does the knee prevent him from being his old self?  Can Brady be 100 percent next September?  What happens if he has more setbacks?  And with Cassel, the Patriots have an insurance policy; yes, a very expensive one, but clearly a very effective one.  He proved last night that he can make all the throws and that he can lead the team.  That throw to Moss was sensational, and he won over the locker room.  Now look for the new Patriots to become the Patriots of old on offense. 

FROM KRISTIE ACKERT OF THE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS…  Still, in talking about Flacco yesterday, the Giants showed an unusual amount of respect for the 23-year-old from Audubon, N.J.  “I think in the first four games this season he was a rookie still. He is maybe still a rookie, but he is not making mistakes he was making earlier,” Giants linebacker Antonio Pierce said. “Right now he is comfortable. I don’t think they are forcing him to win the game. He is not creating turnovers for the other team, putting them in great position to win games, throwing the deep ball very well. So he is a good rookie right now.  Obviously, we have to do some things to change that up for him a little bit and get him a little confused.” The Giants’ defense is third in the NFL in sacks this season with 30 and takes pride in its ability to rattle opposing quarterbacks. The Giants (8-1) have held opponents to 177.1 passing yards per game. They have given up 11 passing touchdowns and forced 12 interceptions. After being unable to get to Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb on Sunday night, the defense is hungry to bring down the 6-6 Flacco.  “Hopefully, we will be able to get back to where we were prior to this past game,” Tom Coughlin said. “We did put pressure on the quarterback but we don’t have anything to show for it.”

I felt like the grass field at the Linc in Philadelphia hurt the Giants rush last week, and this week the Ravens will struggle to handle the front.  The Giants have good match-ups along the line against the Ravens.  I agree with Pierce on Flacco; he is very comfortable and he is stroking the ball.  And Cam Cameron, along with quarterback coach Hue Jackson, have done a wonderful job of making the offense fit around Flacco and getting more out of the receivers than I would have ever imagined.  The Ravens are in the greatest position to enhance improvement; they know their coaching and scheme is solid, now all they need to do is improve their overall talent-base on offense.  In this game, I think that the Giants will move the ball.  If you closely watch the game against the Texans, the Texans showed they could move the ball in the air, but made too many mistakes.  I expect the Giants to move the ball in this game. 

FROM RICHARD JUSTICE OF THE HOUSTON CHRONICLE…  Every case is different.  Parcells couldn’t wait to get away from Young and show the world he was smart enough to do it all himself.  He did get the Patriots, Cowboys and Jets to the playoffs, but his only championships came while coaching the players Young selected.  Holmgren wanted to be in charge, too, so he left Green Bay for Seattle to get complete control.  After four years, the Seahawks forced him to give up personnel duties. He focused on coaching and got the Seahawks to the Super Bowl.  Oddly, for as poorly as the Texans have done in free agency, their drafts have been decent.  They got it right on Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Eric Winston, Owen Daniels, Steve Slaton, Duane Brown, etc.  If Kubiak and Smith were right about Amobi Okoye, Fred Bennett, Antwaun Molden and Xavier Adibi, their draft report card would look pretty good.  But no matter what you think of the way Kubiak calls plays or manages the clock, the harsh truth is the Texans also need better players. After three years, most of these players are ones Kubiak and Smith wanted.  When McNair starts asking questions, he might begin here.

The Texans are going to have to ask some very hard self-analysis questions this off season and revamp how they build the team.  But one thing is clear:  it takes talent to correctly evaluate talent, and the Texans need to have the right people making those decisions.  You cannot always bring in Denver refugees since we know that Denver is not a team that is overflowing in talent.  Just because you know the player does not mean the player can help your team.  And you send a message to the locker room that you favor any player who has been in Denver.  I said this earlier in the week: the Texans are very close, they just need someone who can suggest and imply the right changes to improve the team. 

FROM STEVE REED OF THE CAROLINA GROWL…  The passing game was almost non-existent after Muhammad caught a 3-yard touchdown pass on the opening possession to give Carolina a 7-0 lead. Quarterback Jake Delhomme finished the game 7-of-12 for 72 yards with four interceptions and no touchdown pass (a QB rating of 12.3) and Steve Smith had just one catch for 9 yards. However, the Panthers still won the game 17-6. “I thought we ran the ball well, but we didn’t execute well in the passing game,” Muhammad said. “You are going to have games where you are not going to be perfect and not as efficient as you want to me. You are going to lack luster a little bit. But the sign of a great team is when the other two phases are able to pick up the slack. In specific, what happened? We didn’t play well. And I think everyone can take ownership of that. Not just Jake, but myself, Steve, D.J. Hackett, the offensive line… everyone can ownership on exactly what happened on that date. But the real sign of a great offense is how you respond to that. So we’re very anxious to get back on the field again.”

When you play the Panthers, you have to handle the Steve Smith routes.  Smith is an incredible talent, and he is a great player; he runs routes that NO ONE else in the NFL runs—or can duplicate.  He’s a unique player; he’s hard to stop ,and if you don’t have the right people to match on him, he will kill you.  The Lions have no one on their roster that has the talent to match him.  And for all the talk about how bad the Panthers were last week, they still won the game despite not playing up to their potential.  The Jets lost to the Raiders out in Oakland, so winning there is still a good win.  The best condition for improvement is to win but not have played your best.  This allows you as a coach to walk into the meeting room and have their full attention. 

FROM TODD ARCHER OF THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS…  Jerry Jones said he has spoken with “key NFL people,” regarding Adam Jones but not Goodell. … Jerry Jones said he does not believe the cornerback’s return would be a distraction.  “Not if he’s adhering to the kind of things that he has to address,” the owner said. “He was a hard worker, hard practicer and certainly contributed positively to our team. So I don’t consider him a distraction.”  Adam Jones played in the first six games and had 27 tackles and 11 pass deflections. Because he was the second Cowboy to be suspended this season, the team is being fined $20,588 for every game the player misses.  Jerry Jones said he has had contact with Adam Jones on “numerous occasions,” but did not know when Adam Jones will finish the alcohol treatment program. He said the player would continue to have counseling locally.  “I would suspect, just with my experience in that area that that never finishes,” Jerry Jones said. “It’s an ongoing basis.”

Every time Jones has these impromptu press conferences, he takes away any credibility the head coach might have with the players.  This might not seem like a big deal, but the players read this and say, “What will Jerry do?”  They know they don’t work for Wade, they know Jerry is in control, and each one of these meetings just reinforces that point.  One thing that concerns me is that under the NFL rules, when a player is suspended, he is not allowed to have contact with the team, in any way.  Jones claims to have talked and been in contact with Pacman, which based on the rules of suspensions in the league is not allowed. 

FROM SAL MAIARONA OF THE ROCHESTER DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE…  Edwards has slid all the way to 17th in passer rating at 86.9, and of the 16 quarterbacks in front of him, only Tampa Bay’s Jeff Garcia has fewer TD passes than Edwards’ seven. “He’s learning,” said Jauron. “We tend to overlook the fact that he’s not a real experienced quarterback and he’s going to make mistakes on the field. He’ll be fine, he’s mentally very tough.” Edwards, who has five interceptions and two lost fumbles in the last three games, has spent a good chunk of the first couple days of practice this week working on his mechanics, which he thinks are a little out of whack. “Working on my footwork after practice, throwing some balls, throwing some extra routes here and there just to get back to what I need to get back to and that’s part of the position, that’s part of the sport,” he said. Asked why mechanics would go awry at this stage of the season, Edwards said it can happen because of bad habits.  “Just guys in there that you’re not as comfortable with early on in the season, not comfortable with the defense, what you’re seeing, the coverages.”

I feel the Bills are placing too much of the game on the shoulders of Edwards.  They need to get more out of their running game and allow Edwards to be a play-action pass quarterback, not always forcing him to be perfect on every play.  When you go shot gun on third and one, you have to rely on perfect execution to convert, and the defense can get the right matches.  But for me, the Bills need to feature running back Marshawn Lynch and let Edwards play off his talent, not the other way around.  Plus, if I was in Buffalo, I would be all over the offensive line as they seem to have gotten too fat and too soft.  They have not gotten better; in fact, they have gotten worse and that is where the Bills have fallen short. 

FROM RICK STROUD OF THE TAMPA TRIBUNE…  Earnest Graham, who injured a knee Nov. 2 at Kansas City, returned to practice on a limited basis Thursday. Warrick Dunn, who did not play against the Chiefs because of a back strain, also benefited from the bye week. Even FB B.J. Askew appears ready to go for the first time since a hamstring strain Sept. 21 at Chicago. “(Graham) looked pretty good. I think he looked good,” coach Jon Gruden said. “Obviously, the bye week came at the right time for him. Warrick appeared quick. So we’re counting on those guys at this point.” Graham, who has been pulling double duty at fullback the past four games, said the first half took a toll on him physically. “Definitely, I’ve had a lot of work this year, at different positions, of course — lead blocking, running the ball, everything else you can do as a football player,” Graham said. “Most guys around this time of year … it’s pretty common to be beat up a little bit. That off week did us all some good.”  For Dunn, the rest was even longer. “Just the days of not running around, not getting hit — that helps. I don’t care who it is, that helps,” Dunn, 33, said. “And for me, I pretty much had two weeks, two and half weeks. It’s good. I’m good.”

The Bucs’ offense is running-back based, and when they had Graham at full back, they were a much better offense.  The Bucs have a great defense, and if they can get any production out of their “Sideways” offense they might be the second best team in the NFC.  And they need to gain the NFC South title because the one thing they have proven this year is that they are not a good road team; they need to get a home playoff game.  With a week off, Jeff Garcia should have better eye level and work the ball down the field on the Vikings secondary.  The Bucs have to make plays down the field in the passing game.  When they do that, they look very good and tough to beat. 

FROM BRAD BIGGS OF THE CHICAGO SUN TIMES…  No one takes exception to the work of the media more regularly than defensive tackle Tommie Harris, who complained at length about a Sun-Times column from earlier in the week that he acknowledged he didn’t read. Harris said the column made it appear he was pointing fingers at teammates after the loss to Tennessee.  ‘ You think that a lot of the fans are saying a lot of negative stuff, but it’s really just the media that always keeps us going,” Harris said. ”That’s what you guys have to do, that’s your job. … I just pray for you guys and hope that you can sleep at night.”  Cornerback Corey Graham said Wednesday that everyone with the Bears was on thin ice, and that seems to be the way some want it. ”Where is it not tense Week [11]?” Smith said. ”It’s a big game, and each week it’s that way. I hope it would be tense. There’s a lot at stake, and guys want to play well. It will be the same thing next week and the week after that.”

Tommie Harris is just too inconsistent as a player.  He looked back to form about a month ago, and now he is back to lying on blocks and does not have the ability to disrupt many plays.  He is not quick off the ball, he is not explosive right now and this affects the Bears defense.  The whole concept of the defense is built around having great play from the three techniques.  Harris has been too inconsistent and this is why the Bears are so inconsistent. 

FROM MAX PREPS:  HIGH SCHOOL COACH OF THE WEEK CHARLES KYLE:  ST. IGNATIUS OF CLEVELAND OHIO…  ”You’re going against Glenville, who’s got weapons galore, and to be able to hold them to one touchdown. We blocked a field goal and we blocked punts. We did some things with the defensive unit that was magnificent. That’s going to be ranked up there as one of the great ones.’’ The Wildcats’ Magnificent 11, also known as the Saint Ignatius defense, were great when they had to be as Coach Kyle’s team called on its will time and again in defeating the talent-laden Tarblooders, 8-7, in a Region 1 semifinal playoff game. The tense defensive struggle attracted a standing-room crowd of nearly 10,000. In avenging a 20-17 opening-night loss to Glenville, the Wildcats improved to 11-1 and advanced to this Saturday’s Region 1 championship game against the Strongsville Mustangs (11-1). Like Saint Ignatius, Strongsville has run off 11 consecutive victories, including an impressive 17-3 triumph over a highly regarded Mentor team in Saturday night’s other Region 1 semifinal.  The Wildcats-Mustangs encounter will take place at Parma’s Byers Field. The kickoff is scheduled for 7 p.m. Byers Field was the site of Strongsville’s regional-semifinal victory over Mentor. Glenville, the top-ranked team in both the Associated Press Division I state poll and The Plain Dealer seven-county poll, closed its season at 11-1. Coach Ted Ginn Sr.’s gifted Tarblooders were making their sixth consecutive postseason appearance and their ninth overall.

Fantasy Draft Guide

Remarks

36 comments for “National Football Post Diner News”

  1. Kevin
    November 14, 2008
    10:16 am

    Hi Michael,
    I have a Denver question. You knock Denver for not having enough front office people but what about the Goodman’s? They have drafted very well for Denver since 2006.

  2. Sonny L.
    November 14, 2008
    11:00 am

    Michael,
    I doubt NE franchises Cassel, but whether they do or not, the offense is NOT the problem on this team. The defense is mediocre at best, for 3 years now they can’t stop anyone late in a big game, against Indy in AFC title game, the superbowl last year, last night…etc. Whenever they need the defense the most, they collapse.

    Regardless of whether Brady plays or not, this team is NOT winning anything without a better defense, one that can pressure the QB and cover receivers, period!

  3. Michael Lombardi
    November 14, 2008
    11:18 am

    the Goodman’s? I think Mike runs the draft as well and the goodmans are find people…

  4. Sonny L.
    November 14, 2008
    11:22 am

    Michael,
    and another thing, your friend Belichick is developing a bad habit of getting outcoached in big games too!

    not to mention the talent base keeps getting worse and worse…why does no one call out Pioli or BB for that?

  5. Michael Lombardi
    November 14, 2008
    11:24 am

    I agree Sonny, dead on…

  6. Matt M.
    November 14, 2008
    11:35 am

    Sonny, Are you serious when your talking about the talent base getting worse and worse. As of last night the patriots are 31st in the league in starters either hurt or on I/R. Their without their top QB, RB, 2RB, OLB, SS, and RG (most of the year) Yet somehow the keep winning games. If you told me they’d be 6-4 to start their season without Brady I’d say your crazy.

    I agree their defense cant make big plays when they need to and their lacking speed there. But in no way is their talent down. Pats motto is one guys goes out the next one steps up and plays.

    Take D.Ware, T.Romo, M. Barber, Ken Hamlin, Felix Jones and one of their o lineman and the Cowboys would be in shambles. Save for Barber and Ware being a bit better players. O wait you just need to take Romo out for them to not have a prayer. Give me a break!

  7. Alex
    November 14, 2008
    11:36 am

    Wait a second. New England dug themselves a hole came back and made a couple of bonehead plays the Vrabel hold. Mayo is a stud. Guyton will be solid as well. Need to draft cornerback and most inmportant safety in the first round.

  8. Matt M.
    November 14, 2008
    11:37 am

    I will agree though with belichick being out coached in a few big games. Last years Superbowl, AFC title game two years ago, Broncos divisional game before that and the colts games this year. I dont believe belichick was out coached yesterday. The Pats simply made huge mistakes when it counted most.

  9. Matt M.
    November 14, 2008
    11:40 am

    actually i take back broncos divisonal game..The Broncos got a cheap pass interference call which was the game decider.

  10. David
    November 14, 2008
    11:47 am

    What types of routes does Steve Smith run that are unique to him?

  11. Sonny L.
    November 14, 2008
    12:20 pm

    Matt,
    Where do I begin? I agree that Mayo is a stud and Guyton is a find, but who couldn’t pick a starter with the 10th pick or whatever it was….

    How about busts like Chad Jackson, Lawrence Maroney, Dave Thomas and Ellis Hobbs who belongs on the bench… or JAG’s (just another guy) like Merriweather, Deltha Oneal, Sanders, Ty Warren?

    They’ve done a good job in trades and free agency for the most part, but drafting has been awful since their superbowl years…

    As for injuries, every one has em so nobody has sympathy, but you have to ask yourself why they have so many every year?

  12. Michael Lombardi
    November 14, 2008
    12:25 pm

    david, the double move deep route, the speed cut out and the over route…all are in his own style

  13. nikos
    November 14, 2008
    12:39 pm

    Sonny,
    Ty Warren a JAG?? You lose all credibility with that comment. If you go back and review the Patriots draft position you will see that they have done an excellent job drafting. It’s tough drafting 30-32 every year and picking impact players. When they’ve had a chance to pick at the top of the board they’ve come through aces and have also added some late 1st Rd gems like Wilfork and Mankins. No one hits on 100% of their picks.

  14. nikos
    November 14, 2008
    12:52 pm

    Sonny,
    Also, how did BB get outcoached yesterday?? You tell me another team that loses their all pro QB - possible top 5 QB all time - that is as competitive as this team. The way Cassel has improved from his first game to last night is a testament to BB’s coaching. With the exception of lax ST’s yesterday I believe the Pats were the better team last night on offense and defense. The Pats consistently shot themselves in the foot in the 3rd Qtr with mistakes like the Watson fumble and the Koppen bad snap. They were moving the ball at will on the Jets D but let them off the hook.

    Also let’s see yesterday the Pats were down, their starting: QB, RB, DE, OLB and and yet it took OT for the Jets to beat them. I don’t think any team in this league would have a 6-4 record with this many injuries to key players. This team isn’t going to be an easy out for anyone come playoff time.

  15. Thomas Bonneau
    November 14, 2008
    12:57 pm

    Sonny, you ask who can’t draft a starter with the tenth pick? Well, the Jets drafted #6 this year and last night I’m not even sure Vernon Gholston got off the bus …

  16. Skeptikal
    November 14, 2008
    1:04 pm

    Sonny is Just Another Hater.

    I wouldn’t waste your time on him, he proved he doesn’t know what he is talking about by calling Warren a JAG or saying that Hobbs should be on the bench.

  17. Bob O.
    November 14, 2008
    1:39 pm

    It is hard to criticize the smartest coach in the NFL (and who is the best at recognizing when to use timeouts at games end). But here goes anyway: Coach Belichick needed to kick a field goal in the second quarter on 4th and 3 to cut the lead to 24-12, instead of going for the 1st down they did not get, especially with having an excellent placekicker. Those 3 points were a difference maker, and the tactic reminds me of the same decision-making in last year’s Super Bowl, which also didn’t pan out.

  18. Sonny L.
    November 14, 2008
    1:43 pm

    I am not a hater, but a long-time Pats fan who has seen every minute of every game over the past 20 years….now I ask you, have you seen Ty Warren play this year? many games he is invisible….
    and if you think Hobbs shouldn’t be on the bench, you sir haven’t been watching…he gets burned game after game after game…

    Look, I know no one hits all their draft picks, but Pioli has been missing more than he’s hitting the last few years. Last year’s draft has good potential so far, but time will tell.

  19. Jack
    November 14, 2008
    1:52 pm

    They’ll saying “No more FlaccOOOOOOOO!!” in NY after Sunday…Bal has a QB AND a top Defense for the first time EVER.

  20. Brad James
    November 14, 2008
    1:53 pm

    Yes, in the 2005 AFC Divisional championship game, Shanny definitely outcoached Belichick. I think the “pass interference” call you’re referring to is that apparent touchback that Benjamin Watson supposedly forced. Pats fans have the thinnest skin around, I swear. Grow a a pair. Now, with that said, the Jets made the big plays when they had to and the Pats’ mistakes were too big to overcome. I think the Giants will beat the Ravens in what should be the game of the week and if the Buccaneers get a passing game, watch out for that squad!

  21. Brad James
    November 14, 2008
    1:57 pm

    2005 AFC Divisional playoff game. Sorry for the typo.

  22. Mr.Murder
    November 14, 2008
    2:43 pm

    Corey Dillon, Rodney Harrison, Randy Moss, Wes Welker. All great draft picks by the Pats.

    Who else?

    The kicker is key when you play the Jets, they’ve had kicking issues this season. I think Washington’s amazing kick return took thier focus off FG and onto TD. Stick with the plan, the better you do that the greater that your talent will manifest.

    Steve Smith comes out of breaks running full speed. Few can roll a cut like he does and come out of it as fast, ready to catch or leap. Nobody else has as good a skip step/jump step that lets him start and stop with such explosion. He can combine straight line speed running north/south like lightning, and do amazing lateral moves off those cuts and jump steps.

    You’re running full speed to keep up, next thing you know, he’s no longer in front of you. Guys lose their head trying to find where he goes, he puts everyone’s head on a swivel. He’s so good with those moves sometimes people standing nearby watching lose wherehe is going.

    Watch the faces of people on the sideline nearby when he makes plays. Marker crews, refs, players and coaches. He did that? Woah! Where’s he at now?

  23. nikos
    November 14, 2008
    3:12 pm

    Sonny,
    Stop making yourself look foolish, “now I ask you, have you seen Ty Warren play this year? many games he is invisible…” In the Patriots style 2-gap 3-4 the DE’s need to be stouter because they need to be able to hold their place without being overwhelmed in order to allow the LB’s behind them to make plays, despite that Warren has posted 38 tackles, 2 sacks and 1 FF. This is not the same style 1-gap 3-4 they run in Dallas with Wade Phillips or San Diego where the DL can afford to be more aggressive because they receive support from the LB’s in performing their roles. Maybe you need to hit the books and understand what the player you are downgrading is being required to do in their team’s defense before making your way off the mark comments. Warren is a stud 3-4 DE not a JAG.

  24. nikos
    November 14, 2008
    3:22 pm

    Brad James,
    I love the revisionist history, Shanny did not outcoach BB in Jan 2006. The Patriots lost that game because they had three fumbles, two critical int’s, missed a field goal, committed 8 penalties and rushed for a whopping 79 yds. If you remember the Broncos punter in that game forced a fumble on a kick return, Todd Sauerbrun on Hobbs. The fantom PI referred to is one on Hobbs where he never even made contact with the receiver, it was right before the half.

  25. Aaron Spacemuseum
    November 14, 2008
    3:33 pm

    Sonny, if you’re a pats fan, please move to Indianapolis. Ty Warren, invisible? 3-4 DE’s aren’t supposed to put up big sack numbers, that’s the OLB’s job, Ty’s one of the few Pats who’s consistently done his job on D all season.

    Man, if we had 94 in there last night instead of the barely athletic Mike Wright, that game wouldn’t have even been close.

    To everyone else who’s blamed Belichick for the defensive meltdowns of the last few years, look no farther than Defensive Coordinator, Dean Pees, hired in early 2006.

  26. Sonny L.
    November 14, 2008
    4:16 pm

    Aaron: Just because I’m a fan of NE, I don’t have to fall in love with every player they have or drink the kool aid… all I know is the defense isn’t championship caliber…

    Nikos: Are you his agent?..LOL look, Warren isn’t the biggest problem, but we certainly aren’t seeing them shut people down when they need to….you are the expert, what exactly is the problem?

  27. Mikal
    November 14, 2008
    4:44 pm

    Aaron, Belicheck hired Pees. Who does the buck stop with? Even with Brady this year they wouldn’t be undefeated. To long in the tooth on defense. It happens.

  28. MattMan
    November 14, 2008
    4:55 pm

    Murder,
    Moss was Drafted out of Marshall by the Vikes in 98′.

  29. Mikal
    November 14, 2008
    5:15 pm

    Mattman, None of those players listed were drafted by the Pats. That is his point, I think.?

  30. nikos
    November 14, 2008
    5:47 pm

    Murder’s point, I believe, is that those players were like draft picks because they were acquired via trade, all with the exception of Harrison. For ex, the year the Pats acquired Moss and Welker they continually traded out of that draft because they felt the class was a weak one. They traded one of their two first Rd picks to next year, then traded a 2nd and 7th for Welker and a 4th for Moss.

  31. nikos
    November 14, 2008
    5:54 pm

    Sonny,
    It’s my belief that the Pats problems all arise from their secondary. The coaches simply don’t trust them enough to blitz as often as they would like. It’s also tough when three important starters who they counted on like Williams, Harrison (both for the season), Thomas and Warren are down. The Pats had big plans for Tank before he went down in the preseason. Thomas and Warren have only missed one game to this point but overall their is a lack of continuity, they have shown improvement but right when they seem to get it another player goes down. Wheatley for ex was starting to play a lot better and showed nice technique and coverage ability vs the Colts and he goes down and they’re back to Deltha O’Neal starting again and having to sign Webster to play the slot.

    Bruschi is a liability in pass coverage as well but with Thomas now down he must play more snaps.

  32. Mr.Murder
    November 14, 2008
    7:31 pm

    Their best picks were free agents or trades, despite getting loaded with picks from items like the Bledsoe deal, Milloy’s departure, etc.

    Warren’s doing yeoman’s work in terms of what the D does. Ask yourself, if Bill B had the talent to run one gap, rush upfield and be aggressive, would he? You know the answer.

    He doesn’t so he tries to flatten the line of scrimmage. He also simplifies a lot of duties and gives his LB one window reads on one back sets. The movement and disguise stuff is to hide what is a pretty bland group of personnel outside of Vrabel and Seymour, Harrison a few seasons ago.

    You have to go off quick counts so they can’t keep moving around, force them to line up where they are supposed to be.

    When his line talent was better he could always put Seymour on the weak link. By the second half, teams had nowhere to go because his adjustment curve caught up to the other team. Actually it stayed ahead because when you have good players you know what other teams will do against those fronts and coverages to try and beat them. Outside of a few specialty items they would run early, just to try and keep your range of situations and plays more predictable later, it is pretty bland stuff with a lot of smoke screen around it.

    Mayo is really promising, he should be a good part of the team’s future. The player has speed enough now to correct some early mistakes. In time he will be a step ahead in terms of position when he grasps the total system. He does that at times now, but with experience he will be there every down.

    Pass rush makes every secondary look better, but without it you need to have players whose confidence remains when you blitz. They don’t appear to have that, there’s no swagger and shutdown player to set the example.

  33. nikos
    November 15, 2008
    1:52 am

    Murder,
    Some good points but BB has always run this version of the “Fairbanks-Bullough” 3-4. The system is more often than not conservative, despite the threat or perceived threat of a LB blitz. The Pats defensive scheme/system places more of an emphasis on discipline and physicality over risk taking, thus the characterization of the scheme/system as a “bend but don’t break defense.” Perfect examples of this are Giants v Bills SB where BB was defensive coordinator for the Giants and Pats v Rams SB when he was HC of Pats, who like the Giants were heavy, heavy underdogs. I believe both gameplans are in the Football Hall of Fame. Dischiplined and physical is when the Pats are at their best, as Mike Martz said when the Rams met the Pats in a regular season game that same SB season in 2001 after his team had 4 players end up seriously injured “We just beat a Super Bowl team. They are the best team we played to this point. They are so physical and tough. We are lucky to get out of here with a win.”

  34. Mikal
    November 15, 2008
    2:17 am

    Sure, but some of those guys are still on the team. Can you say OLD.

  35. Nikos
    November 15, 2008
    12:06 pm

    Mikai,
    That’s a huge media myth about the Pats being old, avg age of starting D is 27.6 yrs. For ex the Jets starting D on Thurs night vs Pats was 27. IMO, it’s ok to have a little experience on your team.

    Murder,
    Here’s a good read on grading 10 yrs of the NFL draft on all teams:
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=531

    Also,it really depends when in terms of time you are grading a draft. For ex in this piece Scouts, inc. re-grades the 2005 1st Rd and re-drafts players: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/news/story?id=3329724 They have G Logan Mankins rated as the #7 pick (Pats picked him #32 1st Rd) and Kaczur #27 pick in the 1st Rd (Pats picked him in the 3rd Rd pick #100 overall). So with a late 1st and and late 3rd the Pats brought two 1st Rd quality players into the fold, that right there makes 2005 a solid draft class.

  36. Nikos
    November 15, 2008
    12:41 pm

    Mikal,
    Some unbiased commentary for you on the Pats aging LB corps: “And with all the concern over those aging linebackers, rookie Jerod Mayo is an absolute stud and Pierre Woods was better than good with Adalius Thomas on the sideline. With Shawn Crable finishing his rookie year on injured reserve, the Pats may have rebuilt that group in the blink of an eye.”

    http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Commentary/Columns/2008/arkush111408.htm

    And the man forgot to mention rookie LB Gary Guyton who is playing well this year.

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