QUOTE: “You want a prediction about the weather, you're asking the wrong Phil. I'll give you a winter prediction: It's gonna be cold, it's gonna be gray and it's gonna last you for the rest of your life.” -- Phil from “Groundhog Day”
Michael Vick is a top-10 QB?
On Monday, Michael Vick was on Dan Patrick’s radio show and said he still he believes he’s among the top ten quarterbacks in the NFL. Not sure I agree with his assessment, considering there were 10 quarterbacks who threw for more than 4,000 yards this season, something Vick has never done in his career. In fact, Vick has never passed for over 3,000 yards in his career, so it would be hard to think he could be a top-10 player.
But the critical question still remains: Can the Eagles actually get a draft pick by trading Vick? Based on his limited play and results this season, it would be tough to determine that Vick is going to be your starter to justify the contract and trade. When you look at his numbers rushing and passing, he did very little -- just 13 passes and 24 rushes. So this trade would have to be based on a vision an organization has for Vick. But how do you craft a vision without knowing his skill level?
This time of the year, most NFL teams are building their convenient truths regarding their teams. It’s convenient for many of them to believe they don’t need help at certain positions. It’s convenient to believe this young player will become great. It’s convenient to believe they can win with the team currently in place. It would also be convenient for some team in need of a quarterback to think Vick can solve the problem, but we know that’s not true based on the evidence presented in 2009. So for the Birds to gain a pick for Vick before they have to release his rights or pay his large roster bonus, they need a team in search of a convenient truth regarding him, not a team in search of the truth.
Another example of a convenient truth comes from Rams owner Chip Rosenbloom, who actually believes his team is closer than many might think. “I think fans should be optimistic about the direction of this organization,” Rosenbloom told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch in a rare interview. “We made a sweeping restructuring of the entire organization so that we could be winners on the field — to put us in position to start winning games.”
I’m not sure what games Mr. Rosenbloom watched this season, but the Rams looked a long way from being a competitive team.
It’s “I want more money” season
Every day, there seems to be a petition coming from some player in the NFL who wants a new deal based on the season he just had. Some, like Chris Johnson the Titans and Joshua Cribbs of the Browns, deserve new deals. I’m sure others do as well, but complaining about it publicly is never going to work.
Until there’s a sense about what’s going to happen toward a labor agreement, new deals will not happen. It would be hard to make a deal without knowing the ground rules that will be in place, so until that happens, new deals will be slow.
South Beach Super Bowl thoughts…
1. Forget all the blitz talk from Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams. He has to be thinking about using his “double everyone” game plan from the Patriots game: double Reggie Wayne, double Dallas Clark, double Austin Collie in the slot and hope Jabari Greer can hold up on Pierre Garcon. Williams has think coverage first, not rush.
2. The best rush for the Saints will have to be pushing the pocket and keeping Peyton Manning in front of them, never getting behind him so he can step up. To cause Manning problems, you must be in front of him down the middle. I call it the “paint area,” like in basketball.
3. Manning’s preparation is legendary, and I’m sure he’s done a complete study of Gregg Williams’ defense going back to Williams’ days in Washington and Buffalo. He did the same before he played Rex Ryan and the Jets.
4. The Colts have to hope their safeties play well this week. Saints quarterback Drew Brees wants to hit those seam passes down the field, and he has to work the safeties off the hash with his eyes. It will be critical for them to play well.
5. The Saints aren’t buying the news that Dwight Freeney might not play. They got fooled into thinking DeMarcus Ware of the Cowboys would miss their game and he played, so they’re expecting to see Freeney in some pass rushing role.
6. Media day today here in South Florida, which had to be moved inside because of the weather. It’s been overcast and wet since I arrived.
Follow me on Twitter: michaelombardi
For a look at the 10 worst all-time Super Bowl QB performances, check out this article from Bleacher Report.
Even as a Redskins fan, I have to respect the way the Eagles run their organization. They have stability, they are prepared to let aging players go, they know when to step up in free agency. With Vick, they stepped in when other teams were too cautious and locked him up for two years, giving them insurance in the event McNabb or Kob were injured or traded. Now they are set to turn Vick into a decent draft pick.
What is he worth? Is he a top ten QB? Probably not. Who is better? Manning, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Favre(retired?), Warner(definitely retired), Rodgers, Cutler, Ryan, E. Manning, Henne, Moore, Cassell, Kolb, McNabb, Stafford, Sanchez. Maybe I missed a couple of guys who most would say are better right now than Vick. Anyone else? I would take Vick heads up for Jason Campbell. ditto, Orton. I would take him over anyone I've seen in the draft. Draftmeisters are divided over whether even the top guys, Clausen and Bradford, will be starting quality NFL QBs. Vick has been to the Pro Bowl.
How can anyone say he's not worth a second or third round pick? You don't have to give him a budget-busting long term contract either.
Who should go for him? I think the best place is SF. A team with a good defense that has a basic, run-oriented offense. He won't be asked to throw it 45 times a game , but his ability to make one or two big plays a game with his legs will make the difference for a team playing close, defensive battles.
I don't understand why any team would give the Eagles a pick for Vick. Everyone knows they won't be bringing him back so why not wait till he's released and save yourself a draft pick. I can't see that big of a demand for him, speed wise he never looked like the original Michael Vick so all you're left with is an inaccurate passer.
Completely agree about Gregg Williams and blitzing Peyton. They do that and Peyton will feast. They need to generate a pass rush from the front 4, Will Smith and company need to step up here to have a shot at slowing down Peyton.
Vick is terrible - if you are a defense why worry about his (aging) legs if he is not accurate with his arm. He was losing ground before he got suspended because as the legs slowed the arm accuracy and general QB development could not keep pace. Now, forget it, who wants an aging project that has to learn how to play the game differently
and just off the top of my head you forgot the QB in Pittsburgh that has 2 superbowl rings, who is defintely top 5 QB in the league - you also probably would take the following over Vick - Flacco, Palmer, Leinart, Garrard, Romo, Schaub, and Hasselbeck
Vick is probably as good of a choice as the bottom 6 or 7 QBs in the league without the upside of some of the younger ones and the resume of some of the older ones
One thing Vick got over with his YEAR LONG TOUR OF DIFFERENT NFL CITIES is his conviction is old now and any protest to come out or questioning thoughts by GM's is pretty much going to be smal potatos or non existant.
When Checkov wrote about winter, he saw a season cold and bereft of hope. But, standing here among the people of Punksutawnee, and basking in the warmth of their hearths and hearts, I can think of no better fate than a long - and lustrous - winter. ...from Punksutawnee, I'm Phil Connors.
"Man... you... 'touch' me!"
"Thanks Larry."
Pssssssst ! Isn't it great not hearing about some guy named Favre 24/7 ?
You'd have to be a desperate GM to hand your team off to this mellonhead.
He's just one of those guys who will never show the smarts and responsibility necessary to be the front man of an NFL franchise. He's just a bit of a freak show. Lots of talent that will burst into flames at some point.
LOL VIck? A top 10 QB?
And I'm Peyton Manning.
Nice job Lombardi. I think Jabari Greer is the key for the Saints' success defensively. We'll see how he holds up. I enjoyed Media Week and it appears the weather's breaking so hopefully it remains that way. Keep up the good work and I'll watch you on NFLN tongiht.
Hollywood,
Oops, I forgot those guys, although I'm not sure Leinart or Hasslebeck at this stage of his career or even Palmer are better. Basically, I agree with you. He's not top ten but he's certainly an upgrade over the bottom third-type guys. If you're Mike Shanahan, wouldn't you prefer him to Jason Campbell? Can you honeslty say you wouldn't prefer Vick over what you'd get in the second or third round in the draft?
When mentioning current top 10 quarterbacks you failed to mention Matt Schuab of the Houston Texans - the MVP of the Pro Bowl, and this years leader in passing yardage.
Top 10 QB? He can hardly crack the top 20:
14 are way better quarterbacks than he was, is or will ever be
Rodgers, Favre, Cutler - E Manning, Romo, McNabb - Brees, Ryan - P Manning, Schaub - Brady - Rivers - Roethlisberger, Flacco
and even these 9 have outperformed him in their short/longer carreers in the league
Stafford, Kolb, Campbell, Hasselbeck, Garrard, Young, Cassell, Orton, Palmer.
Hell, I would rather have the 40 year old Garcia than Vick in my team
"In fact, Vick has never passed for over 3,000 yards in his career, so it would be hard to think he could be a top-10 player."
Lombardi I'm disappointed in you. Why can't you or any of the other football experts, which I believe you are, see that with Vick numbers don't matter. He is simply a great athlete who def. coord. need to plan for. He is a threat to run every time he takes a snap, which means the defense has to commit a player or two to stop this, and D-linemen have to be aware of it. He brings a very different dynamic to an offense than any other QB, and for you to say that his passing yardage total dictates that he can't be a top 10 QB is short sighted and lazy. How many QB's have had 1,000 yards rushing in a season? Oh none did last year or 10 years before that? I guess that makes Vick the best QB. With Vick, throw out the numbers. What he does can't be quantified.
Hmm. Try these numbers on for size: TWO winning seasons out of six with the Falcons. A combined yardage per game (rushing + passing) of 210, less than a quarter of that rushing. (We can pretty safely throw out this season because he barely played.)
Doesn't sound like defenses had a great deal of trouble stopping him to me.
You tell him Yojimbo.
Vick was the reason the term "Coach Killer" was coined. He was such a great player that the home fans took to booing him.
"How many QB's have had 1,000 yards rushing in a season? Oh none did last year or 10 years before that? I guess that makes Vick the best QB."
Wow. A fan's self-delusion knows no boundary.
Jeff....................HOW MANY RUNNING QUARTERBACKS HAVE WON THE SUPER BOWL?
NONE !
Not top 10. Maybe not top 15 either. But let's be real here...
JaMarcus Russell, Jake Delhomme, Josh Freeman, Brady Quinn, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Leinert and Marc Bulger are all worse QBs than Vick.
Then you have Hasselbeck at the end of his career, Orton and Alex Smith are huge question marks, and Tavaris isn't better than Vick if Favre retires.
So let's be real. Seven teams legitimately need a QB and probably 2-3 others could be looking. Jason Campbell is the only FA QB on the market this year. Keeping all this in mind, Vick doesn't have value?
I don't like Mike Vick. Never did. Thought he was an average QB at best and an above average athlete. Is that good enough for the bottom 25% of the league? Heck yes.
Also, for those claiming that teams won't trade because they know Vick will be a FA after the season, that logic is flawed simply because of how the market works. If you trade a third rounder for Vick, you own his rights and have direct power to negotiate a contract. If you wait until he hits the market, you now have to bid against other teams and have no leverage.
Vick has trade value, in the moneyball sense. Bill Veeck could sign him as a lefty pitcher, just to sell tickets. The way training has come along he could still see a return to form.
He might have some issues to deal with regarding testimony, clear of those he is still someone who has a lot of fans. Somewhere a team will see that, perhaps a team not in the NFL.
He hasn't written the final chapter, that is certain, how much of the story remains about football is what matters here.
You have to remember how much time Vick can run off a clock. It doesn't sound like much but if you have a team based on defense he can pick up a few time-consuming drives, let your strong suit stand on the sidelines, catch their breath, go over the pictures...then punt them down in bad position and let Vick make 2-3 plays for you. Could that not win a first round playoff game for Carolina, SF, or Oakland?
"Could that not win a first round playoff game for Carolina, SF, or Oakland?"
Sure. But then if the rest of the team carries the load, even Rex Grossman can get to the Super Bowl. But I think Vick as QB sets a ceiling on how good a team can be, how far they can go. There is a curse to being "fairly good" - middle to low first round draft picks, salary and starting jobs consumed by good-not-great players, and worse yet, as Lombardi points out so well above, a general feeling that you're not that far away, when in truth, you've peaked and need to approach the offseason with urgency. Going back to Rex, look where Chicago has been since.
Regardless of anyone's opinion of how good Vick was and still might be, the biggest obstacle to another team bringing him in is that the offense has to be completely retooled to fit his unusual skill set for that position. This isn't a plug and play league where a good players can be dropped into any system and expected to perform at the same high level that they did elsewhere. So unless a GM is going to trade for or sign him to be the unquestioned opening day starter, which teams are going to gut their current offensive staff to bring in guys specifically to coach and design plays for him when he's a longshot at best to win the starting job in a QB competition that will naturally favor more traditional QBing skills? And even though he was seldom used and not especially effective in the role, I am sure he would have the most value to a team that would simply want to expand his role a gadget player. He is too old and of far too uncertain level of ability at this point to be considered more than a band-aid on any team's starting QB problem.
First, I don't buy the whole 'time of possession QB' thing, but let's get down to brass tacks. Al Davis is wedded to JaMarcus, so that's most likely not happening. There's a very off chance that he brings Vick in to motivate Russell and then Vick wins the QB competition, but I just don't see it. At Carolina, all I see coming out of it is a pissed-off Steve Smith, and not in a good way. The Niners have some developing receivers and QB, none of whom would be helped by Vick coming. And, as Bill brought up, I don't see teams like the Seahawks retooling for a Vick-style game.
Ultimately there are two places I can think of where Vick might have a chance...the Rams and the Bucs, moreso the Rams. He and SJax could be a lethal combination, although you'd see even more box-stacking against them.
Mike Vick is even worse than Brett Favre. Who would want him?
Agreed in respect to the retooling for Vick problem; however I'd like to make one quick point. A QB that throws for 4000 yds is not necessarily better than a QB who throws for 3000 and runs for 1000. The point is that they move the chains and though I do not like and never liked Vick as a thrower he did move the chains.
PS Bow wow.
"Mike Vick is even worse than Brett Favre. Who would want him?"
Huh? Favre is a first ballot HOFer coming off a terrific productive year, leading his team to the second seed. He had a ridiculous season. I guess Vick is worse than that, along with about 25 other QBs this year.
for all you na sayers about the condition on vick as far as his skills,if given the chance to play a full season at a starting qb position believe me you will see the explosive of the true micheal vick. im a ex-con whos enliten you sports writer who doesnt know what the pennitary does. its mentally made to break you down, but physically made to preserve the body.
Um, what?
A list of thank yous and a final...
Even if you called me an idiot,...
Their success will depend on QB...
Titans coach wants Chris Johnson...
Now is the QB’s chance to show...
Feb 02, 2010
11:31 AM
I wonder if teams might be better off trying to get Tim Tebow with the draft pick they might trade for Vick. Both QBs are solid runners & shaky passers, but Tebow has fewer miles on his frame.