QUOTE: “Every man in the world is better than someone else and not as good as someone else.” -- William Saroyan
When Mike Holmgren first went to Green Bay in 1992, the first personnel action the organization took was to make a trade for quarterback Brett Favre. Even though Favre was drafted in the second round, Packers GM Ron Wolf and Holmgren both thought enough of him to part with a first-round pick to acquire him from the Falcons. Then, when Holmgren moved to Seattle, he took some time before he made another trade for a quarterback, acquiring Matt Hasselbeck from his former team, the Packers. Hasselbeck was originally a sixth-round pick, but Holmgren was more than willing to pay a first-rounder for his rights because he knew the centerpiece of the organization had to be the quarterback. Now, with Holmgren in Cleveland and again faced with uncertainty at quarterback, the question remains: What will he do at quarterback?
Is the draft an option, or is making a trade? I’m not sure the draft is a viable option for the Browns, based on the talent available. With all the recent speculation, it appears that trade rumors are running rampant in Cleveland, many centering on the Philadelphia Eagles. The Birds have two quarterbacks (Donovan McNabb and Kevin Kolb) who may be of interest to Holmgren and his new general manager, Tom Heckert, who also came from Philadelphia. In spite of all the talk, it would be hard for me to imagine that McNabb would not agree to a contract extension to join the Browns, nor would it be hard to imagine the Browns would trade for McNabb without an extension. So that leads me to believe if the Browns have interest in an Eagles quarterback, it would have to center mostly on Kolb. Heckert loved Kolb when he was in Philadelphia, was responsible for drafting him and can accurately describe him to Holmgren with regard to work habits, character and, most important, his potential as a full-time starter.
So what’s Kolb worth? I’m sure if the Browns offered their first-round pick, the seventh overall, they would get the Eagles’ full attention. But do they have to offer that much? Better yet, is Kolb worth that much? The Eagles might say that’s not enough, but they also once said they’d never take less than a two for Lito Sheppard, so we know if the Browns offered that pick, the deal is done. I strongly doubt that will happen, but what if the Browns offered Pro Bowl nose tackle Shaun Rogers for Kolb?
Don’t laugh. This kind of deal would allow the Eagles to close the gap between them and the Cowboys. Even Eagles president Joe Banner admitted Tuesday in his talk with the team’s Web site that there’s a gap. Here’s what he said: “I don’t think the difference is as dramatic as one may think just looking at the scores of those two games, but there is a gap there. We have to figure out how to close that gap and be ready to go next year.” For me, the gap is in the Eagles defense, specifically their front seven where, other than Trent Cole, they don’t have a player who can win a one-on-one matchup against the Cowboys’ line.
Rogers would be a gap closer on the field. He would give the Eagles a dominating inside player, something they don’t currently have on their roster and someone who can match up with the Cowboys’ size along their offensive line. Rogers is signed to a long-term deal, he’s kept his weight down and he was a model citizen in Cleveland last season — all of which would be appealing to the Eagles. Kolb gives the Browns a future quarterback, something Holmgren knows he needs, without having to part with a draft pick. This trade might be a win/win for both teams.
If the Eagles add Rogers and then sign potential free agent defensive end Julius Peppers of the Panthers (they were not a final-eight team, so they can sign anyone), they would do more that close the gap on the Cowboys -- they would pass them. The Eagles will be one of the teams pursuing Peppers since his kind of game would fit perfectly with their defense and give them a blue-chip front seven player.
If the Eagles make these two moves, they’ll be a final four team next season, regardless of what they do in the draft. In fact, they can use the draft to help them find a young quarterback to replace the departed Kolb. They know they must close the gap, which is the first step.
These moves make sense to me. What do you think?
Follow me on Twitter: michaelombardi
Mike,
Would you see the Eagles having an interest in Aaron Kampman? Would the Eagles part with their 1st pick (#24 overall) for Kampman and GB's 2nd round pick in the draft (#55)? Or the Eagles 2nd round (#56) for Kampman and GB's 3rd rounder (#87)?
They could then trade Kolb for Rogers and have a left side of Kampman and Rogers and stay out of the high priced Peppers deal.
Thanks,
sub-
Kolb showed in limited starts this season with the Eagles that he has the tools to be a starter. The question is, is that time now? In Philly he had Desean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin and a handful of talented weapons, in the home of the Dawg Pound, he will inherit the best kick returner in football and.....a safety turned receiver. I don't know if this trade will particularly work in favor of the town by Canton, but it would be nice to see "D-Line Pride" return to the Iggles.
Don't forget, too, that the Browns run defense was better at the end of last season without Rogers. The deal makes a lot of sense if you're Cleveland.
Interesting speculation. I see the browns as so talent deficient that giving up one of their few good players is unthinkable, particularly a guy who could be impossible to replace. They won a few games with Quinn. Get some talent around him, then evaluate the QB situation.
As for Peppers, Carolina can franchise him but it would cost them something like $20 mill for the season. Not likely to happen, and he is not likely to sign any extensions. The Eagles run a pretty tight ship, but they have stepped up on occasion in FA. This would be a really big step however, as Peppers will command Haynesworth money.
i am assuming you are operating on the premise that there will not be a cap for a rogers to philadelphia trade. so if they were to do a trade the browns wouldnt be penalized whatsoever financially for this?
on the flipside ok so we still have an unproven QB with Kolb at the helm. with whom do we replace the talent void on defense with? Mangini is still going to run the 3-4 so CLE still needs a 3-4 NT. Ahtya Rhubin did ok at the end but is he really the one to be the anchor? Who is draftable at #7 to replace Rogers on the line?
I've read these Rogers for an Eagles QB rumors in the Plain Dealer before, but it would be dumb for Cleveland to trade Rogers. Creating 1 hole to fill another wouldn't be wise. Trading Corey Williams on the other hand wouldn't be a bad idea, as he'd probably fit the Eagles scheme and would be a more even swap.
The Cleveland run d stats may look better when Rogers was out, but thinking it was BECAUSE Rogers was out would be a mistake. There were a number of factors that led to the statistical improvement. They would have probably been even better if Rogers stayed healthy. Trading a Pro Bowler, and one of the most dominant DT's in the game, even for McNabb, would be mistake IMO.
The Browns can offer up their 2011 1st rounder for McNabb, and that should get it done. If Kolb is who the Browns prefer, then offer up a 2011 #2, or Corey Williams if they want a DT, and maybe a late round pick this year, Otherwise stay away and look elsewhere. Don't trade any of this years high picks, or any of the few all pro players they have. The Browns might be better off taking a shot at Vick. They could probably get him for cheap and his upside has to be at least as high as McNabb, with much less financial risk. Vick and the Dog Pound.
Isn't Trent Cole a Blue Chip player. As a Giants fan hes the one player I watch on that defense every week. Also don't the Eagles also need a good Linebacker?
I'd be interested in seeing your updated blue chipper list now that the season is over.
I tend to agree that the improvement seen by the Cleveland run D over the last 6 games of the last season was more schematic than "personnel".
A. Rubin plays the NT spot better in a 3-4 than Rogers does, Yes. Rubin holds the LOS; Rogers is a penetrator. Thats not the proper role of the NT in a 3-4. (I can't imagine the Cleveland coaching staff was stupid enough to not realize that sooner......but it appears they were.)
I would tend to keep Rogers, he's talent that you have. Use him more properly. Put him on the Outside in your 3-4. Keep Rubin in the middle. Why can't coaches work with talent they inherit, instead of getting rid of it?
On to the QB position. I'd be interested in acquiring Kolb, but I'm not willing to give up a #1 or a #2. I can't believe his value is worthy of anything higher than the Browns own #3 pick this year. If they demand higher, I would be looking elsewhere. If Kolb was a proven commodity in the NFL, I would think differently. I don't consider Kolb any more NFL proven than B. Quinn at this point. You can't give up high picks for that.
This trade makes perfect sense for both teams IF the Browns believe Kolb is a future starter-quality QB. I think at this point it's pretty obvious that Heckert does believe this.
The Browns are still rebuilding (I feel like we've been saying that for 10 years). By the time this team contends, Rogers will be on the downside of his career. He turns 30 next year. He probably has 1-3 years of elite production left in him. For the Eagles, this is fine, as they have a chance to win now. For the Browns, it makes sense to get value (in this case the QB they've been seeking for a decade) for a DT that doesn't really fit their current scheme.
MDM, while I agree with you that there were a lot of factors that contributed to the significant improvement in the Browns' run defense after Rogers injury (acquisition of Matt Roth, contributions from some of the younger guys like Maiava and Benard and the unit just meshing over time) I DO believe that Rubin is a better fit for the 3-4 NT than Rogers. Rogers is a penetrator, which is not what you want your NT to do. You need a guy like Rubin who occupies blocks, opening up the gaps for your LBers. If the Browns do keep Rogers, he will likely spend most of his time at 3-4 DE, with Rubin remaining at NT. With 11 draft picks, they can take a few 3-4 Dline prospects/projects and hope that they develop the way Rubin has.
The Eagles get a rather inexpensive solution to their defensive line woes and one who is signed through his prime. Even without Peppers, the front seven of Philly is much improved with Rogers' acquisition. As Lombardi states, Philly can then use a mid-round pick on a QB to replace Kolb and develop him over the next few years.
I think this trade should happen....
Rogers is coming off an injury and will be 31 next month. How much good football does he have left? Coming off a broken leg and fractured ankle while weighing over 350 lbs makes me skeptical that he'll be healthy and continue to be an impact player.
Read this on rotoworld:
"The Browns' run defense improved by 44 yards per game after NT Shaun Rogers was placed on injured reserve in late November.
They also held opposing teams to just two rushing scores in the final five games. Ahtyba Rubin appears to be better than Rogers at holding the point of attack and tying up blockers while Rogers excels at getting upfield. With the three-time Pro Bowler due $6.9M in 2010, the team is expected to entertain trade offers."
I'm wondering whether the Eagles would want to part with Kolb, as opposed to McNabb. Kolb is their future--how many years does McNabb have left?
Peppers does a lot of complaining for a guy who made $17 million last year... Buyer beware.
@The Linc
Rogers is coming off an injury and will be 31 next month. How much good football does he have left? Coming off a broken leg and fractured ankle while weighing over 350 lbs makes me skeptical that he'll be healthy and continue to be an impact player.
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Look at Pat Williams - similar case in Buffalo (weight problems, sometimes inconsistent)yet he changed environment and at 38 he is still going strong.
Lurie is loaded with bucks but do owners with a lot of cash want to drop big dollars on players with proven attitude problems?
Last year the Eagles threw big money at one its weakest spots, the offensive line, and it had little positive impact. Peters was a disappointment, like he was in Buffalo, and the Birds would have been better with the Andrews Sisters then the Andrew's brothers because, at least the sisters can sing and are a cheaper date.
So is Shaun Rogers, a problem in Detroit and Cleveland, worth a dice roll? And is it worth being Kearse's last big pay day? Kearse is a player much closer to the end of his career then its height and is no help against the run.
The Birds were overwhelmed by the Cowboys big boys and size is an issue with the Bird defense but will throwing money, and a potential franchise QB, after it help?
The Eagles are at a cross roads with McNabb and Westbrook.
McNabb is as good as he is gonna get, and that has not been good enough to get over the hump, so do you try one more time to win it with him or do you let Kolb and the young wide-outs and backs develop together?
Ye trade Kolb all chance of that is gone...and ye might have a soon to 35 year old McNabb eliminated early in the playoffs and no proven young QB on the roster to take the team to the next level...
As usual you got the facts wrong. It was Andy Reid that spotted Kolb and drafted him. Heckert had little if nothing to do with it. Reid saw Kolb on TV while in Texas waiting to play the Cowboys. You are a McNabb apolgist with no credibility. You evaluate talent poorly thats why you no longer work for an NFL team. Kolb is the better talent.
The Eagles don't sign players over 30 to big money contracts. McNabb's contract ends next year so they would have to extend him. Unlikely. They'll either trade him this year or play out his contract. Either way they don't extend him. Everything in your proposal hinges on him staying with the Eagles for a while.
Some good points made above about why the browns mght want to move Rogers. OK, trade him and a pick to the Broncos for Marshall.
The problem with going for a QB is that the Browns are not a decent team that will become instantly better with the addition of a legitimate QB. See Bears, Chicago.
You're out of your mind. Defensive tackle is not in the top 3 defensive problems we have. A 30+ DT with a history of injuries? Patterson + Bunkley are fine--we need a defensive end to go with Cole, and a good safety, and a good SAM and more cornerback depth before a DT.
I think this is the off-season to trade McNabb, not shoot your load on big-name free agents and go for broke one last time for the title.
Signing or trading for Peppers and/or Rogers is a short-term move. D-lineman that are paid well don't keep the fire going and they degrade quickly.
Kolb is ready. And if Holmgren is willing to give up the #7 overall pick to get him, then that all but confirms Kolb is ready to be a starter (it's like getting a 2nd opinion from a specialist).
For the Eagles to "catch" anyone (and really Dallas has no firm grip on anything), they need to just get better. A core of Kolb, Maclin, Jackson, McCoy, Celek and Weaver rivals any young up-and-coming core around. Their tackles are signed for the next 3 seasons. Any/all draft picks from trading McNabb can go towards the defense.
What if they trade McNabb and package picks to get Suh or McCoy? Isn't that better long-term than overspending like crazy for a 2-year window of Rogers or Peppers?
Lombardi, you make it sound like another Kolb is just a 3rd round pick away, but that's short-sighted. Kolb was a risk that paid off after a lot of investment time wise. The next guy might not be the same and could flop. If that happens, this "plan" of yours looks foolish and will cost everyone (front office, coach, etc.) their jobs.
I agree with some of these posts, there is no way we would trade Kolb for a 31 year old DT with a history of injuries. Patterson and Bunkely were a big reason we had one of the best run defenses two years ago. We need help at DE and Safety. I would love to see us go for Peppers. Yes, he was complaining in Carolina, but the guy has talent and does not need to be the stud on the Eagles. Having that type of talent opposite of Trent Cole will make this dline very tough to handle. As for safety, I don't know what to do. We need help there next year, and I am not sure we could find an impact player at safety that could step in immediately to fix this problem. Possibly we go for a free agent as well as a DE.
I am not on the bandwagon suggesting the Eagles need help at LB. The talent is there, the problem was the Eagles kept switching Witherspoon, Jordan, Gocong and Foku from one spot to the other. Once they were comfortable in one position they were moved to the next. Assuming Stewart Bradley can recover from his knee injury, that gives us Akeem Jordan and Will Witherspoon at LB. And as dumb as Foku was with penalties this year, they are really high on his talent. If we can stay healthy and develop more defined roles for each player, LB should not be an issue.
Last, and most importantly, I hope we do not trade Kolb. McNabb has shown his propensity to under perform in big games. The younger players respond to Kolb. He is best friends wtih Celek, and several reports indicated that Maclin Jackson Celek and McCoy would go to Kolb for advice, not McNabb. Reid has continually gotten rid of aging talent and replaced it with someone waiting in the wings (See: lito sheppard and sheldon brown replacing troy vincent and bobby jackson, celek for lj smith, etc.) With that said, the one player Reid seems to protect above all others is McNabb. It will be interesting if he follows suit and trades McNabb. I hope he does because if we go with Kolb, that is at least 4-5 years of Kolb, Celek, McCoy, Jackson and Maclin. That is one of the best young cores in the NFL. Going with McNabb instead will shorten that window dramatically.
I agree with some of these posts, there is no way we would trade Kolb for a 31 year old DT with a history of injuries. Patterson and Bunkely were a big reason we had one of the best run defenses two years ago. We need help at DE and Safety. I would love to see us go for Peppers. Yes, he was complaining in Carolina, but the guy has talent and does not need to be the stud on the Eagles. Having that type of talent opposite of Trent Cole will make this dline very tough to handle. As for safety, I don't know what to do. We need help there next year, and I am not sure we could find an impact player at safety that could step in immediately to fix this problem. Possibly we go for a free agent as well as a DE.
I am not on the bandwagon suggesting the Eagles need help at LB. The talent is there, the problem was the Eagles kept switching Witherspoon, Jordan, Gocong and Foku from one spot to the other. Once they were comfortable in one position they were moved to the next. Assuming Stewart Bradley can recover from his knee injury, that gives us Akeem Jordan and Will Witherspoon at LB. And as dumb as Foku was with penalties this year, they are really high on his talent. If we can stay healthy and develop more defined roles for each player, LB should not be an issue.
Last, and most importantly, I hope we do not trade Kolb. McNabb has shown his propensity to under perform in big games. The younger players respond to Kolb. He is best friends wtih Celek, and several reports indicated that Maclin Jackson Celek and McCoy would go to Kolb for advice, not McNabb. Reid has continually gotten rid of aging talent and replaced it with someone waiting in the wings (See: lito sheppard and sheldon brown replacing troy vincent and bobby jackson, celek for lj smith, etc.) With that said, the one player Reid seems to protect above all others is McNabb. It will be interesting if he follows suit and trades McNabb. I hope he does because if we go with Kolb, that is at least 4-5 years of Kolb, Celek, McCoy, Jackson and Maclin. That is one of the best young cores in the NFL. Going with McNabb instead will shorten that window dramatically.
I agree with all those who say Kolb won't be traded. Vick most likely will be traded. And McNabb will most likely come back to finish his contract or, if there's an offer the Eagles can't refuse, he'll be traded. It takes a few years to develop a QB and this year is a bad year for drafting one. It would be a huge gamble for the Eagles to trade away the guy they've been developing for the last 3 years with no one behind him. Won't happen. And BTW, the Eagles are ALSO re-building, and have been the last 2 - 3 years (there are only a handful of guys over 30 on the team). This lends more credence to the idea that they will continue to replenish the team with younger talent. And they'll look at any trades that will give them good draft picks.
If the Browns dangled their number 7 pick for Kolb, that would be mighty tempting. McNabb can play for several more years. Reid loves him, and he was good enough to get them to the SB. They might be able to package that 7 pick and Vick and get a couple of mid to low first round picks. The problem they face is McNabb is not going to extend his deal so they can trade him to a crap team, and no one will deal for him without an extension. So Kolb is the real trade bait.
Rodgers has talent, a huge salary, and limited output when injuries occur.
He is still a presence, someone you must game plan around, when healthy.
The cap being lifted will allow free agency cost wise, but it will limit and slow true free agency, also it will expand restricted status. Trying to go the traditional route may not be an item for such reasons. Trades will be easier to do cost wise, these stories getting out early were clearly part of a seeding campaign started by agents for other players. This is a similar item?
Vick was not the leverage they assumed as part of an extension into McNabb's contract year. Does Kolb's status under the cap-less terms insulate the Eagles in terms of contract demand into the season after this?
The draft is rather deep at defensive tackle in terms of runstoppers? Perhaps so, especially in terms of two down players. What makes this different?
The Eagles should be giving picks for a pass rusher on the interior. He would be their version of Ratliff for at least ten games a year.
Kolb was at his best when Westbrook was at his best. He's done some spot duty for Donovan and given them quality starts, were the results as good this season? Assuming McNabb lasts 16 starts may be reaching, since Vick may not be the trade off they envisaged, maybe they are better holding Kolb. The opinion here is that he's a backup at this time, but Holmgren knows what he wants in a system of football, and his talent people know Kolb, dealing in certainties always helps.
Andrew worked with the Eagles, so the story probably has real legs to it, or wings. The story getting out could help both teams anticipate the market response. Mike's favorite team finds a young player to pass with, the Browns finally get to play without having someone take the football away.
Still, it really seems like they have a similar passer there now in Quinn. What about Kolb is that much different?
As for building an all star defensive line, is Mike saying the Eagles should be the East version of the Vikings? Is Rodgers being a market item really that hot a deal since he would be the notorious third team franchise player? Would Ziggy look at this since he needs to replace an all star defensive tackle?
Were the Vikings that far ahead of the curve, and have the Eagles stayed ahead, or slightly regressed? In a Cap-less season, is this trade/free agent spree the new operative model?
From the player for player trade, this is franchise money player for a quarterback starter, or is this another Jay Feeley trade, this one in the Eagle's favor?
This won't happen, while I believe Kolb will be a good NFL QB, the Eagles like Kolb way to much to trade him. He's their future and possibly their present, so if the Browns wanted to pry Kolb away from the Eagles they will have to seriously overpay for an unproven QB. The minimal would be the Browns 1st rd pick, and the Eagles would probably want more than that, they won't take Rogers cause they are already paying 2 1st rd pick DT's who are only 26 and 25 they won't pay Rogers who's 31 on top of that. So their options are to trade for McNabb or Vick or look elsewhere.
I wouldn't trade Kolb at all , he is the future and the main hope the Eagles have of getting back to a super bowl . Mc Nabb has had his time and I think while still a decent qb his time has passed so get what you can for him and close that book because the future looks brighter with Kolb !!!
Trading Kolb makes a lot of sense, especially in light of Holmgren's history with Hasselbeck. Maybe it's Kolb and the #24 pick for the #7 pick. That way Cleveland gets to stay in the first round (avoiding a repeat of the Quinn scenario), but still gets a NFL-ready QB to build around. On the flip side, the Eagles move up and can get one of the impact safeties, Berry or Mays, and address a need they've been ignoring for too long. It sounds like a deep draft for DTs, so maybe they go DT in the second round.
Kolb's got a negative turnover ratio, about as many fumbles, Quinn's came in a bunch though(one season). More should be there to justify this, Quinn is as tall(according to rosters, maye that is PR as well) and he's about fifteen pounds heavier to take the punishment of playing.
The thought of acquiring a surefire tackle in Shaun Rogers is enough to make all of us Eagles fans salivate, whether its possible or not. However, if such a deal were to go through, all of the fans would be sitting on the edge of their seats waiting to see Kolb become an All-Pro for another team. It is an interesting situation. It is obvious McNabb has some years left in him, but Kolb is going to be turning 27 this upcoming pre-season. If you asked him, I am sure he didn't envision himself still being a backup coming into his fourth season. Obviously I am encouraged by those two starts this past season, but I have always had a feeling about Kevin Kolb. He was a mature quarterback in college and I knew I could see that translating to the NFL stage when the Eagles drafted him.
He may have just come a little too early. McNabb may very well have 4 more years left in him, and I cannot see Kolb waiting for Donovan to retire. I do not believe the Eagles will trade McNabb. Looking back on the years, which have been successful (which tri-staters would debate without a Super Bowl), the Eagles have been adamant about keeping the Reid/McNabb marriage intact.
...Or they could just keep them both and inevitably deal with this question next year when Kolb becomes an RFA.
BUT I agree with you on closing the gap with the Cowboys. With Bradley coming in, hopefully feeling healthy, I believe it is the D-Line that needs a major boost in order to get to Romo. Watching those games, it was easy to spot that the Cowboy's O-Line was just toying with Bunkley, Patterson, and Parker. I feel that Trent Cole would be even more successful with someone to take some of that pressure off of him. We will see how the front office handles it. I think that the problems with the team are easily recognizable and I hope they are addressed.
Reid loves offensive lineman. Give Joe Thomas and a 2nd round pick for McNabb and the Eagles first round pick. The Eagles can't trade Kolb without a fan revolt. In a recent Inquirer survey of 20,000+ fans, almost 70% of the Philly fans want a change at QB, and they want Kolb not Vick by a large margin. Trade Kolb and disappoint the fans and take away their hope of positive change and you will have one ugly boo fest at the Linc. It will get ugly!
You national media types continue to have McNabb at a higher level
than many Eagle fans. Mike did you not see the Eagles last 2 games
against Dallas. McNabb was awful. I know, the national guys say it wasn't
McNabbs fault. How about the Pro Bowl then. He looked like he did in
the Dallas games. I know, its an exhibition, but he continued to show the
same flaws with Pro Bowl players. His time has passed. The team had 0
wins against playoff teams last year. He will be 34, has been injured, and
has had 11 years to win the big one. It's not gonna happen here with him
and Reid.
Having seen nearly every Brown's game since 1954, its obvious we need a QB in the worst way. We have no one close to Graham, Plum, Ryan, Nelson, Sipe or Kosar on the roster.
This potential trade, it it happens, looks like a good gamble to me. Rogers takes too many plays off. He's never looked "in shape" to me. He gets exhausted & ineffective in the 4th quarter when you need him the most.
Kolb comes highly rated although I've never seen him play. i particulary love this bit about him from his Wikapedia entry: "Kolb is an avid hunter; it has been reported that he hunts wild hogs with a couple of dogs and a 12-inch bowie knife."
Gotta love a guy like that.
The Eagles have a problem, but it is a nice problem to have. They have three starting quality QBs. Vick will clearly be traded for a mid round pick. No brainer. Tell me he wouldn't make the Redskins instantly better.
Kolb is tougher. As Larry points out above, the Eagles fans are tired of McNabb and want to see Kolb. They will not react well if he is dealt, then McNabb struggles. So a team wanting him will probably have to overpay as the Bears did for Cutler.
McNabb will never agree to go to the browns. Would you? The ideal place for him is obvious. Arizona. They can deal Leinart for him, plus a midround pick, and the Eagles have solved the problem of getting a backup for Kolb. SF might be another possibility.
Mike: You are one of my favorite football writers and I love speculating about Eagles QBs, but Kolb-Rogers trade and the FA signing of Peppers are both (a) terrible football decisions for the Eagles and (b) entirely inconsistent with the Eagles Way.
Trading a potential 10-year starter at QB for a 31 year old DT makes absolutely no sense. The Eagles have spent 1st round picks on both Bunkley and Patterson, both of whom are quite solid against the run. Moreover, while the Eagles have a bunch of defensive needs, DT is quite low on the list (after replacing Dawkins, DE, LB, and next-generation CBs).
Moreover, the Eagles don't sign 30+ year old free agents. And they especially don't trade away potential future core players for them. The only free agent DEs worth attention this year are Ray Edwards and Peppers. I could envision a scenario in which the Birds target Peppers on a short-term (1-2 year) deal, tailored for the uncapped year, but it just wouldn't make sense for the Eagles to cripple their cap with a long-term deal for an inconsistent and aging Peppers.
I think something else that can help close the gap with them and the 'Boys is to run the ball more. I know many say the league is a passing league and the Eagles do have one of the better passing offenses in the league, but I think with McNabb getting older a run game will benefit him greatly. Even though he throws for a ton of yards and his TD-INT ratio is greater than 2 to 1, I think he throws too much for a guy with questionable accuracy.
The Browns defense was not better at the end of the season because Rogers was not there. The Browns defense was better at the end of the season because their offense was on the field longer and their opponents averaged almost 12 less carries a game because of it. It seems the Browns media is full of narrow sighted information and the fans seem to suck it up as truth. I dont see Browns fans talking about how Matt Roth and Marcus Benard over a short amount of time with the team outplayed Kamerion Wimbley severely but nobody is talking about trading that schmuck. Maybe if their sportswriters brought that up they'd rally behind a trade their also.
Take any 5 game clip that Rogers started last year and compare it to any of Ahtyba Rubin's 5 start clip. There is no comparison. He didnt compare in tackles or qb pressures in any segment. In my opinion the Browns defense was worse without Rogers. His ability to disrupt both the passing and rushing game was severely missed as the Browns allowed players like Matt Cassell and Charlie Frye to torch them for over 300 passing yards. If Rogers was not hurt he would be receiving the same credit Rubin has earned for simply just being there and would not be a consideration.
The Browns are not in the position to trade a pro bowl caliber starter straight up for a QB whose only real measurable is his possible potential. Subtracting from a previously porous defense to add a "potential" qb with a cast of supposedly inept wr's doesnt seem to be in the best interest to the team.
If the Eagles need a "potential pass rushing talent" that they'd like to acquire for a "potential" starting quarterback i'd suggest more of a Kamerion Wimbley and a 3rd round pick for Kevin Kolb simply based on position differential. Otherwise the deal makes no sense for the Cleveland Browns.
JFuz, I"m pretty sure Aaron Kampman even comming off of the injury is more of a potential monster DE than Ray Edwards, Thats why if the Vikes lose somebody in free agency like a Chestor Taylor you will see the vikings sign Kampmann in a heart beat, if another team doesn't get to him first, comming off the injury he will be the bargain of this free agency..... No way he resigns in GB in a defense that doesn't work for him, and doesn't work for the Packers with him in it.
The Browns defense was not better at the end of the season because Rogers was not there. The Browns defense was better at the end of the season because their offense was on the field longer and their opponents averaged almost 12 less carries a game because of it. It seems the Browns media is full of narrow sighted information and the fans seem to suck it up as truth. I dont see Browns fans talking about how Matt Roth and Marcus Benard over a short amount of time with the team outplayed Kamerion Wimbley severely but nobody is talking about trading that schmuck. Maybe if their sportswriters brought that up they'd rally behind a trade their also.
Take any 5 game clip that Rogers started last year and compare it to any of Ahtyba Rubin's 5 start clip. There is no comparison. He didnt compare in tackles or qb pressures in any segment. In my opinion the Browns defense was worse without Rogers. His ability to disrupt both the passing and rushing game was severely missed as the Browns allowed players like Matt Cassell and Charlie Frye to torch them for over 300 passing yards. If Rogers was not hurt he would be receiving the same credit Rubin has earned for simply just being there and would not be a consideration.
The Browns are not in the position to trade a pro bowl caliber starter straight up for a QB whose only real measurable is his possible potential. Subtracting from a previously porous defense to add a "potential" qb with a cast of supposedly inept wr's doesnt seem to be in the best interest to the team.
If the Eagles need a "potential pass rushing talent" that they'd like to acquire for a "potential" starting quarterback i'd suggest more of a Kamerion Wimbley and a 3rd round pick for Kevin Kolb simply based on position differential. Otherwise the deal makes no sense for the Cleveland Browns.
As a Philly fan I'd much rather trade McNabb for Rogers than Kolb. But actually, I'd rather trade McNabb for a 1st rnd pick. We know how far McNabb can take us and now it's Kolb's turn to try. Reid staked his reputation on Kold when he drafted him with his first pick (second round) so now its time to see if it was worth it.
Neither the Eagles nor any other team would trade a 2nd round quarterback whom they've spent 3 years grooming and who showed tremendous promise for an over-30 defensive tackle with weight and attitude baggage, especially when DT isn't even a top 3 need on defense. No chance whatsoever.
Neither the Eagles nor any other team would trade a 2nd round quarterback whom they've spent 3 years grooming and who showed tremendous promise for an over-30 defensive tackle with weight and attitude baggage, especially when DT isn't even a top 3 need on defense. No chance whatsoever.
mike lombardi is nothing more than a hack for the eagles,this mope can't even get another GM job,mcnabb is who needs to go,he's been a failure going on 11years now,is there anything new he can do for this team!!!
If the Eagles trade Kolb I'm giving up my season tickets. Trade McNabb to Carolina or anywhere,and get Peppers. McNabb will never be a precision passer and thats is his downfall. Eagles need a steady running game to compensate for McNabbs inacurate passes, which means a they need a offensive line to keep the running game going and to keep the oppositions offense off the field.PERIOD
I do not to want trade Kolb. I do not like Donovan anymore. To many passes bounced on the ground, to many overthrown passes, to many passes blocked by D lineman. I just don't see Donovan taking us to the promised land. How many more times do we have to see the Iggles losing to teams like Oakland and not even scoring a TD. When they finally trade #5 include Andy in the deal.
I would not make that trade, although I understand why. Instead I would keep Kolb, trade McNabb to San Fran. for one of their #1's. Then I would trade Vick to the Rams for their second round pick. Both teams are staving for a Quarterback and nothing but projects coming out in the draft. I would then sign Peppers, with the money that you have in McNabb and Vick Contracts.
In the draft I would take Carlos Dunlap with the or Taylor Mays with the #16 pick that S.F. would give you. Getting young and have a top inpact player with that pick. I would take Sean Weatherspoon with your own pick. Weaterspoon being able to play all 3 linebacker positions and still should be there. With the top pick in the second round I would take Jordan Shipley, a perfect slot receiver for a Quarterback in Kolb that could throw the short pass well and free up Jackson and Macklin.
That has to be the dumbest plan I ever heard. Equating Hasselbeck, who was a 6th round pick, to Kolb is apples and oranges. The more adequated comparison is Aaron Rodgers to Kevin Kolb. Kolb is obviously ready to play, and a change needs to be made. Even if McNabb gets traded and wins a Super Bowl somewhere else, which I don't believe will happen, it's a situation that will not happen here.
I like the Peppers sign, but would be fine with Kampman. Bradley will be back next year and if your able to draft a safety and a linebacker the defense will be much improved. I'd actually would like to see the Eagles move Brown to Free Safety, he knows the defense and many corners including Rod Woodson transitioned to Safety. A talll athletic corner that can match up with some of the taller wide reciever's would be a big asset to the defense.
Adding some depth to the offensive line would be another good idea.
Trading McNabb, for whatever reasonable offer you can get would be addition by subtraction. The team needs a change, and that starts at the top. With Reid in the organization for the next 3years the only logical change is the QB.
Don't like Kolb for Rogers. I like McNabb for Rogers for three reasons. The 10-10 tie DM orchestrated @ Cincy and the 10-3 loss @ Wash, both in 2008, as well as last season's 13-9 joke @ Oakland. Those are games against bad teams that good QB's win. Don't tell me 5 doesn't lose focus in games against bad teams, which the past two seasons, really hurt the Birds in terms of playoff seeding. His lack of preparation for the Oakland game was inexcuseable and it cost his team the right to play Dallas at the Linc where the elements might have evened the playing field. I think Holmgrem would go for it. He'd have a guy who could at least put the Browns on the upside of 500 and fill the Dog Pound, while buying Holmgrem time to groom a QB who could someday get the Browns back to the Promised Land. Reid should then get Banner behind locked doors and not let him out until hee agrees to do whatever it takes to sign Peppers. With Bradley and Gaithers back next season, a front line that includes Rogers, Cole and Peppers, sure would hide a lot of sins in the d-backfield.
It's McNabb that the Eagles need to trade. They'll never win until they get either a coach or QB who can better manage close games. It's clear that Eagles management like Reid's system, so that leaves QB. Trading McNabb for a mid-round pick can help the Eagles improve their depth at defensive line or linebacker.
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Feb 10, 2010
10:34 AM
Interesting trade, but is Kolb a potential top ten QB. If not, then I would keep looking.
As for Peppers, would the Panthers just let him walk without compensation? I can't remember if he has the no tag in his contract this year. If not, then I would tag him and trade him for at least two 2nds.