Diner morning news: Who believes in Brady Quinn?

Always enjoy the insight Michael. And look forward weekly to all the knowledge and leadership articles in Sunday at the Post. On to the Brady Quinn supporter. Maybe it's Beano Cook? He has a loyalty issue with these Notre Dame quarterbacks. I remember when he claimed Rick Mirer would win FOUR Hiesman trophys! If memory serves, Beno was off by...um...let's see....Four. Thanks again for all the great work sir!

On the Brady Quinn thing I think his issue is he just doesn't give a rats ass. I mean every time I see him speak or on the field he seems like he has no intensity nor any focus. I'm guessing the work ethic is lacking w/this kid. I hate to make a generalization like that but physically he has the skills. I think the difference between a good football player & one not so good is usually the measure of how much a player is willing to work & of course the opportunity to prove his worth. As a former #1 pick he certainly isn't lacking opportunity. When he picks up his paychecks it should be wearing a mask & holding a satchel.

As a Bear fan I welcome the LT move. Not only is there the ossibility of causing a rift w/the team,but he isn't good at football anymore. He's also a mediocre' blocker which isn't exactly ideal for a 3rd down back.

Jake Delhomme, yeah he ought to make Browns fans jump for joy....

"So no quality college quarterback should ever be below 65 percent. "

While I generally agree that accuracy is one of the most important factors for translating college QBs to the NFL. If the above unequivicol statement were true, how in the world do you explain Matt Ryan?

I believe the explanation with Matt Ryan is he played in a more pro style offense in college that didn't have as many short passes to artificially inflate his completion percentage.

I'm not a Quinn fan, but there are a few undeniable facts in life and one of those facts is that you are never right. How in the world you have a job is beyond me. For years I have been a member of a big Browns forum and the running joke has always been that you know whenever Michael Lombardi says something is going to happen, the truth will be the exact opposite. You guaranteed that Quinn would be traded last year prior to the draft. Guaranteed it. Now you want anyone to believe the Browns just plan to dump (cut) him?

any qb would have looked bad in that offense last year

@Tom, Beano Cook made the Heisman comment about Ron Pawlus, an even worse call than if he was talking about Mirer!

Yes, Quinn's completion % in college was aggregate 58%, but his % in his last two years was 65% (jr) and 62% (sr) with more attempts. The college career % is skewed by his underclassmen performance, when he should have been understandably more raw.

I don't think the kid has gotten a fair shake, not with the mess they created in Cleveland.

Thanks Sig. Memory doesn't always serve me exactly like it used to. Beno Cook did have one memorable comment I do remember though. When the hostages were released from Iran (Jan of 1980?) Major League Baseball annouced they would all receive lifetime free admission to any MLB game. To which Beano replied....."haven't they suffered enough?"

I completely agree with Bearhalla from a GBP perspective. Sign LDT, Minnesota, please sign him! That's all you need is another washed up DIVA who sucks in the playoffs. I can see it now: The tinted helmet visor sulking on the bench as Barfve recovers an AP fumble.... and throws a pick-6 in the fourth quarter of a Round 1 loss.

For years I have been a member of a big Titans forum and the running joke has always been that you know whenever the Browns think they are going to make the playoffs, the Titans will fluck it up for them.

The problem with talking about completion percentage in college (well, one of the problems) is that it can be very skewed by the talent differential in games. When 3-Felons-For-Every-Deans-List U plays a directional school, the QB doesn't have to make good decisions: all his players can get open. He doesn't have to make good throws: his guy can get the ball. A QB with less talent around him will have a low completion percentage because his team will fall behind a lot and the other team will be able to ignore the run. His receivers won't be able to get open as often and won't be able to cover for his mistakes as easily.

Completion percentage is indicative of accuracy and decision making. The problem is that it is also related to the quality of the other players on offense relative to the defense, the ability of the QB's defense to keep his team from falling behind, and a bunch of other things that have little to do with the QB.

Perhaps this person's blind adoration of Quinn is because the man is a Notre Dame alum...have you asked him that?

In Brady's defense, (an just in my uninformed opinion) I believe that his career has been undermined by a certain level of coaching mismanagement in his years in Cleveland. Whatever skill level he possesses, this starting-not starting role that seemed to change almost daily has not helped his long-term NFL prospects. I was happy when Cleveland hired Mike Holmgren, although I am not a fan of Mangini as coach. I think he gets one more year under Holmgren, and even if we are in "rebuild" mode (that word everyone hates), if the Browns don't improve significantly in the win category, he will be gone. Mike Holmgren's personality would seem to lend itself more to a Jon Gruden type coach than Mangini. What is your opinion about that?

As for the QB situation, I wondered months ago, before Derek Andersen was cut & before these most recent rumors about trading Brady, whether Mike H would look to the draft for his future "franchise" QB.

A question for you, Michael Lombardi - do you think Holmgren has an interest in Tim Tebow?

I don't see Tomlinson being a fit in Minnesota. Maybe Vikings fans can correct me if I'm wrong here, but Taylor wasn't a 3rd down back. He often came in for series (typically, early second quarter, beginning of third quarter, and a series or two (depending on the number of possessions) in the late third quarter/fourth quarter)

Sure he would spell AP after a long run or a sequence of runs/passes where he was gassed. But Taylor was often on the field for longer than spot plays and third down plays.

A young back-up with flashes of potential or a late 20s veteran with some tread still on the tire seems to be ideal. Julius Jones? A young back-up, like Ryan Moats or Chris Brown from the Texans?

Brady Quinn has had every opportunity to prove he can be the man. He's whiffed every time. I don't care how much the Browns suck, he's not the guy and won't be wherever he lands. But I can't feel sorry for a guy who will collect a nice check for looking good and healthy on the sidelines and holding the clipboard.

Milo,

Well, I'm a life long Browns fan too. But, I think Mike is right on this one. I think the Browns WILL sign Jake Delhomme,
WILL trade Quinn if they can find somebody that will give them a mere low draft pick for him,
WILL cut him outright, if they cannot,
and WILL continue to completely re-do their entire QB situation until they get their hands on their next hand selected long term answer to fill that spot.


And, I WAS a Quinn fan when we drafted him too.

Mike Holmgren will correct the QB position. He might not get his hands on his long term answer immediately, but he IS going to fix the QB position.

Thats my take

Brady Quinn dropped in the first round because most teams from 1-22 in the 2007 draft, except Oakland and Cleveland, had needs other than QB. At Quinn's workout, he threw more than 60 passes. Five hit the ground, one of which was a poor throw.

How many QB's would have completed over 60 percent passes in Cleveland's offense last year? Derek Anderson completed 42 percent. Quinn completed 53 percent. This should underscore how bad the offense was -- rookie offensive coordinator, no experienced receivers. Edwards and Winslow traded. Stallworth inactive.

How do you explain Minnesota, KC and Denver last year willing to give first round picks for Quinn?.

The problem is your write to create controversy, not provide factual objective information.

I am betting against you and for Quinn. He will become an established starter in the NFL.

@Bearhalla -- your generalization about Quinn lacking work ethic is uninformed. He's actually known for his work ethic. He graduated from ND with a dual major and is a workout warrior. He just doesn't have the talent to compete at the NFL level. He's always shown a willingness to work as hard as possible to reach his ceiling... it's just that he hit his ceiling in college.

I think it's ridiculous to judge Brady Quinn based on how he played last year. Who were his starting receivers, Mohamed Massoquoi and Mike Furrey, with Robert Royal at tight end? That team was a disgrace, and the QBs got caught up in it. The best way to judge Quinn is to compare him to Derek Anderson, since they both played in the same surroundings last year. You'll notice that Quinn's numbers blow Anderson's out of the water; in fact, Anderson was one of the worst QBs in football, statistically speaking.

I'm not going to sit here and say Quinn has been great, or that he should be handed the starting job, but give him a break here. The Browns put a terrible supporting cast around their QBs and expected them to produce; what a freaking joke. They traded their top two receiving threats, Edwards and Winslow, and replaced them with nobody. And Brady Quinn is supposed to complete 60% of his passes with a 2:1 TD-to-INT ratio; yeah right.

I would also like to point out the absurdity of saying a college QB "must" have a cumulative completion percentage of 65%. As has already been pointed out, Matt Ryan didn't have that and neither did Matt Stafford (who Lombardi never criticizes, despite his accuracy issues), and I'm sure numerous other QBs. The only ones who would are the QBs playing in spread offenses that artificially inflate completion percentages, like Colt McCoy and Sam Bradford, and you'll notice that Quinn is not one of those QBs. Neither was Stafford...or Ryan...well, you get the picture. A collegiate QB playing in a pro-style offense will NEVER have a cumulative completion percentage that high, because their freshman and sophomore seasons are an adjustment period. Jimmy Clausen is one of the most accurate college QBs I've ever seen, and his cumulative completion percentage is not 65%. That statement is absurd.

Lombardi,

There are people on the Mile High Report (our official Broncos' blog) who say Quinn is Jesus in cleats. As a devout religionist, this scares me in more ways than one. In any case, wouldn't Quinn have some shown good qualities by now? Anytime Jake Delhomme is replacing you, allegedly, it sucks to be you. Meanwhile, LT can't do what Taylor did for the Vikings so I'm not sure if bringing him in is worth their while. He would primarily be a mentor, a fact that Brad Childress seems reticent to divulge. Well, keep up the good work!

I think the Viking's should go out and get him. Favre can mentor him, and groom him to be his replacement. He's always been so willing to do that in the past..........

Jake Delhomme is an upgrade over Brady Quinn ? Really .

I don't know that Quinn is the answer, but until Cleveland upgrades it's receiving corps Peyton Manning would struggle in Cleveland. Quinn has intelligence and work ethic. What he lacks is: he has never went through a training camp being the #1 QB and getting comfortable with the system. I believe Brady could be good with atleast one veteran proven solid NFL wideout added to the Browns roster and time and repititions to become comfortable. Seneca Wallace is not the answer, Jake Delhomme is 35. Give Brady a chance. Cleveland is not a playoff team next year anyway.

It just might be that Delhomme will be added to the roster to serve as a mentor to Quinn. Can't imagine Holmgren building his offense around a 35-year-old QB whose play has significantly declined in recent year.

When trying to build a team for the future, it seems that a 25 year old QB whose was a first-rond selection and only has we NFL starts would be preferred over an aging veteran. As Holmgren stated himself, 12 starts is not sufficient to evaluate a QB.

Anyone who thinks Delhomme his an upgrade over Quinn is a lost cause.

And Lombardi, there's a reason why you aren't employed by an NFL team anymore.

The LT case really is fascinating because anybody with at least barely functioning vision can tell that the guy doesn't have it anymore, but he still thinks he does. How do you convey to this kind of player that he's no longer a feature back but, in a lesser role, he can be helpful? Whose job is it -- the team that wants him but on their terms, the agent who's trying to make his expectations more realistic, his family?
I can't imagine it would be that hard to put together some clips from comparable runs over the years -- similar blocking, similar first contact -- and show how he's not the guy he used to be. The trick would be having the guts to show them to him.

Wait, did someone just bring up Matt Stafford as an example of a good quarterback? Waiting for the punch line to that one... He's terrible. Will never be a true starter. It's too bad since the Leos are starting to act like a real team in other departments.

Delhomme, on the other hand, *might* bounce back. If you sign him you get a maybe 1 in 3 chance that he just needed a change of scenery. Not great odds, but much better upside than Quinn or many other QBs in the league.

I don't give him that much chance. He had an all-league receiver that he couldn't hit if his life depended on it in Carolina. Quinn isn't the answer either. He may be all business in the huddle, but at the end of the day he just can't hit the tough routes.

LT playing behind AP is a different story. Opposing defenses will get worn down over the course of a game trying to stop AP, and that will leave more openings for LT, which he can capitalize on. LT can also make catches in the flat, and I have no idea where people get the idea he can't pass-block from. Could be a very good fit with the Vikes.

And RIP Merlin. 14 Pro Bowls in 15 years is just amazing, especially playing for the Lambs.

I heard Jon Gruden on MNF saying repeatedly how much Quinn had impressed him. Maybe he was just being nice or didn't know what he was talking about.

I don't see how anyone can think they know much more about Quinn now than they did when he came out of ND. He sat for a year, then played under terrible circumstances. He wasn't great, but they won four games at the end of the year with him under center. He looks very stiff throwing the ball. Maybe too much lifting, but the first thing I would do is put him on a flexibility program.

The best thing that can happen to him right now is to get cut. The mess in Cleveland is not conducive to getting better. Next year there will be another new coach. No one is going to give squat for him in a trade. For one reason, they wouldn't want to take on his contract. For another, they see the writing on the wall and know Holmgren is going to get rid of him.

If the Vikes are looking at LT, it is pretty much a signal that they are blocking or trying to motivate Westy for an interview. A former Chilly system player, a third down back at this stage.
Or, looking to LT is cover for their not going that way, since Chilly would probably love to add someone autmatic to his system. They did recently rade a former Eagle wideout his team kept for familiarity purposes and speed.

Look for which ever back still has the most skills intact. Reps and durability are certainly issues. Mike said Westbrook had some ankle issues, he certainly lose some elusiveness.

LT seems to has lost everything by good measure. He probably still throws a mean halfback option pass. Doubtful anyone thinks he can outrun a defender to the field numbers....

Hi Mike,

The problem when you so strongly state your opinion on a player with only 10 NFL starts, is that you sound like you are rubbing our noses into how correct your were about Quinn and how wrong Joe Q. Public is.

The fact is while your anonymous writer fan might not be a "professional" scout (something you are not either I might add at the moment), Phil Savage was when he decided to use both a 1st and 2nd round pick to invest in Quinn.

So it's somewhat childish for you to argue "everyone" knew Quinn would have difficulty with accuracy. Or how Quinn was never really "hyped" as a great quarterback prospect to begin with. Or how Quinn isn't living up to expectations but rather our expectations were incorrect.

Quinn did hit 65% of his pass attempts (Jr. season). Quinn did win maybe more games than the talent level and coaching at Notre Dame might have indicated otherwise (they certainly didn't get better when he left). Quinn does have extremely poor talent around him in Cleveland.

So while Matt Stafford gets your benefit of the doubt on his limited number of games played, you have buried Quinn into obscurity based on his limited number of games played, all while falling back on the "I told you so way back when Quinn was drafted" routine. None of us really KNOW how you rated Quinn coming out of the draft because that's not public knowledge anyway (this website didn't exist).

I will remember your 65% rule when you start pimping a college QB without it (especially CAREER, not just his jr. or sn. season). And I'm sure someday you will and put your foot in your mouth and have an excuse or exception to the rule in that one case.

The truth is Quinn might be underachieving. And Quinn might never live up to what the Browns and Savage paid for him. But when you say stuff like this should have been obvious back when he was drafted sounds spiteful and condescending. Especially when if you didn't have Quinn high on your board, you probably had Russell. I doubt if you were running a draft website you would have taken the "No good QB's in this draft at all" position.

"How do you explain Minnesota, KC and Denver last year willing to give first round picks for Quinn?"

Because it didn't happen.

Easy enough.

"How do you explain Minnesota, KC and Denver last year willing to give first round picks for Quinn?"

Because it didn't happen.

Easy enough.

LT going to visit the Jets. Looks like he didn't get a good offer....

Couldn't have said it any better, better yet, have the Cleveland Plain Dealer publish this piece for all those lost souls.

I was just playing Madden 10 in franchise mode, and in 2010 Brady Quinn was Indy's Back-up. Thought I'd throw that out as a rumor. Schefter or Kiper may report it as a true rumor! lol.

"So no quality college quarterback should ever be below 65 percent."

Completion % in last year of college:
Manning: 60.37%
Ryan: 59.3%
Flacco: 63:5%
Stafford: 61.4%
Brady: 62.8%
Brees: 60.4%
Cutler 59.1%

Are you kidding me?

How can anyone honestly judge Brady Quinn as of right now? The kid didn't play in his rookie season. He played 3 or 4 games his 2nd season before he got hurt. He played up and down as a young QB usually does his first yr playing in the NFL? Then he started the following season(2009) only to get benched in favor of Derek Anderson. How will this young QB grow if he is getting yanked when he is trying to learn the ropes? And what kind of talent did Quinn have to work with? They traded Kellen Winslow Jr before the season started. And also traded away Braylon Edwards before the trade deadline. What other players did he have to help take the heat off of him? Jamal Lewis? He is done! Massuquoi and Robiskie were rookies. Robert Royal is one of the worst TEs in the NFL? I am not going to say that I am a huge fan of Brady Quinn! He does play a little too conservative? But its way to early to throw the kid under the bus? Lets see what he can do on a team that atleast has a running game and some WRs/TE to work with? And Romeo Crennel and Eric Mangini are not offensive minded coaches! So you would of thought they would have brought in offensive cdrs who were solid? Did they? I dont think so!

Well, at this point, it is impossible for me to claim that Quinn might be the answer at QB for the Browns, or any team for that matter. However, one thing about all the Quinn-bashing really confuses me. Normally, on ESPN or NFL Network, footage will be shown of a poor player's poor performances. Don't get me wrong, I have seen plenty of poor throws come out of Quinn's hand. But where is the footage with the Xs and Os drawn all over the screen telling me why Quinn can't be successful in this league?

Not to mention, Mike, that the points you bring up are from four years ago. If you've actually watched Quinn play, you would see that his accuracy isn't nearly as big a problem as his indecisiveness. He holds the ball for way too long, and it just looks like he's really uncomfortable with the offense (I would be uncomfortable too if I played QB for that mess of a team).

Again, I'm not so sure Brady Quinn will be successful with any team, and I'm certain it won't be with the Browns. But the kid does at least deserve a chance with a new team that has a decent system in place. It seems to me that there are a few places where he could fit in well.

Seriously Lombardi, you need to leave this kid alone. What has he ever done to you to deserve your constant bashing? The truth is neither you nor anybody else knows how his career will unfold. I am a fan of his because I am a Notre Dame fan and he was the best QB in my lifetime in South Bend. I was in diapers when Montana was there. Therefore, I don't care what he does at the NFL level. I am his fan because of what he did at Notre Dame. Anything he does in the NFL is just gravy to me.

Having said that, how is it even remotely fair to judge how good he is at the NFL level based on what he did last year? That team was just beyond patehtic. Nobody outside of Cleveland has ever heard of Mohamed Massaquoi or Evan Moore. Not to mention, John St. Clair reminded me more of an el matador than a right tackle. Quinn and Derek Anderson should not be judged based on what they did last year.

Maybe Quinn will be good in the NFL and maybe he won't. But when pieces of crap like you try to revise history and claim he wasn't good in college, that just pisses me off. If he wasn't good, how did he shatter 36 school passing records at a school that already produced NFL greats such as Joe Montana and Joe Theisman. Then you talk about his accuracy which is totally ridiculous unless you look at his last two seasons primarily. Generally a college player is judged more for his final years than his early ones.

You wonder why it is difficult for people to see that he is not an NFL starter. It is because there is not enough of a body of work to go on to determine that. Holmgren has even said that himself.

Like I said, nobody knows what his NFL career will become. But he doesn't deserve garbage like this to be written about him. He is a good kid with a great work ethic and he has never done anything to you Lombardi. He deserves a chance to determine his own fate.

It is a shame that they pay you to write trash like this. The sad part is that you think you know stuff. There really are only two things you know, Jack and Shit.

Now I'm done.

I hope for Brady Quinn's sake he gets out of Cleveland. He has too much class for Cleveland. Brady Quinn never stood a chance in Cleveland much less in the NFL. He was ripped apart by the media while at Notre Dame. All he did was win games for his team and do it the right way.

I don't understand all the hatred toward Notre Dame players. Could it because they do things the right way? The media seems to make heros out of losers.

Michael, did you every play football? I'd take Boomer Esiason's, Ron Jaworski's opinion over yours.

What has Holmgren done for the Personell perspective to warrant this "Czar" status? It's certainly not the juggernaut known as the Seahawks. If I were a Browns fan, I'd be wary and worried.

I don't get it with QB accuracy. How is this not correctable, or at least significantly improvable? Is the ability to throw with accuracy really a genetic trait?

Mike we've met many years ago when you were with the Browns and have had dinner on occasion. I know Nick and Bill failry well and you know who I'm talking about. I've enjoyed your segment on NFL and glad to see you're doing well. I could start this email and share with you private comments I've had with Browns caches about your capabilities about player anaylsis then but won't. Needless to say I know through my friendship with NFL coaches that your opinion of Brady Quinn holds true with some of these coaches, others believe differently and believe with the right circumstances he can be a very productive player. Needless to say your critical comments made publicly about his skill set and his limitations are one thing but yet you make them seem as gospel. Can you eavaluate your wife's accounting skills with a company after being there a short time or is it fair to give her time to develop and work on perceived weaknesses. The same applies to players especially those who work hard to overcome them. In other words give the guy a break!!!

Hey, Milo, you putz, how's Lombardi's prognostication (go ahead and look it up, I'll wait) skills look, now?

Notice how willing everyone is to hammer Mike? How many return to give props when it turns out he's correct?

Why, if you so loathe Lombardi's writings, do you come and read it? Do you REALLY think we want to hear YOUR assessment(s) of NFL personnel moves? Turn off your modem, your mom wants to make a call.

I do not believe in Brady Quinn at all. He is so overrated as a quarterback. He is going to be a bust.

Hillis might look good occasionally with the ball in his hands, but his lack of overall toughness without it has to be in question". Hillis blocked for Darren McFadden and Felix Jones while at Arkansas, I think they did ok in college.