Gates' deal shows true value of the TE position

This has gotta make V Jax and McNiel really pissed, but if they think they deserve the money more than Gates, they're wrong. I mean V Jax has a breakout year and now he deserves huge money? What happens if they give him his contract and he has a down year? Would he take a pay cut? McNiel however deserves this contract. He's not elite, but he's proven pretty stalwart at the LT position

V-Jax should shut up and play. I really like him and he's a beast, but he's asking for top 5 WR money and he's just not worth it. His numbers were a product of his own skills, Gates' presence and Philip Rivers being a top 5 QB. Norv will plug in Floyd and Naanee while he's away, and you will see big numbers from them as well.

Gates was always going to be the 1st to be rewarded after Rivers. McNeill is next in line, and I'm pretty sure that V-Jax is not in the plans - A.J. Smith is most definitely listening to trade talks, simply because he's not that important.

Great news if you are the Packers Jermichael Finley. Young kid is going to cash in big when his contract comes up if he continues to make plays.

It really does feel like a "golden age" for TEs. There are so many good, young ones in the league right now it's ridiculous.

I'm surprised that Gates is only 30. Seems like he's been around forever.

Have said it before and will say it again - this has been happening for years now, please was Kellen Winslow utilized in Miami (Gates type), was Novacek not untilized in Dallas (Dallas Clark type - geez, Novacek was a decathalete for UW on the track team), was Shannon Sharpe not utilized by Elway (no comparison as of yet - the BEST receiving TE ever as of yet), was Bavaro not utilized by the Giants - sorry Bowen, couldn't disagree with you more about the hyped up "evolution" in the game, what's revolutionary about it in my opinion is though the NFL has tragically turned into a 7-on-7 passing drill the reality is that the unexpected result is that the TE has become preeminent for OC's and that is a result of defenses throwing the kitchen sink, exotic blitzes, zone blitzing, anything to get the ball out of the QB's hand which then makes the slot/TE receivers paramount...again in this readers opine that's the story and why now they're more valuable than ever, not that they're significantly different themselves - go back and look at Ditka & Mackey from the 60's and tell me these guys couldn't of caught passes in todays NFL - please...

"Because these tight ends can run"

Bowen - try this out for size - Novacek, decathalete, yeah he could run a little bit - Shannon Sharpe, ditto - Tony Gonzalez, hhmmm, yeah Gates before Gates...John Mackey, was recognized as the best athlete on the field and running machine when he played...Riley Odoms before he ate everything in Denver - Dave Casper of the Raiders, Russ Frances of the Patriots, the list goes on & on of all excellent athletes that could run that played the position my friend - in general your posts are totally relevant and insightful; however, since Ditka showed up on the scene the TE evolved passed being a third tackle in the NFL as other teams saw that value - now grant you in lower levels that was not the case as played SS in high school which we actually called "monster back" - and was responsible on pass coverage of the TE secondarily and didn't really even care as knew during the 70's the TE's in highschool would go out on a pattern twice a game at most - those days are over of course as even the school that personally matriculated at 1000yrs ago is playing the spread, so get that at lower levels, not at the pro level my friend - the TE has been an outstanding athlete on many teams since Mackey & Ditka hit the scene a few sunshines ago buddy...the "evolving" has been the QB's timeframe to get the ball out has shortened due to defensive pressure schemes and therefore the TE & slot receiver or inside the numbers players are now getting more action than ever before - not the athletes themselves are different, just not buyting it...

Get back to work, matrixnov!

Matrixnov-

Really, did you just use your high school experience as evidence for your argument?

Also, you can cite examples of athletic TEs of the past (and they are many), but the fact remains that seeing them split out, sent in motion etc. so commonly is a relatively new development. As such, the right TE is more able than ever to exploit a D. If you don't believe me (or Bowen), look back to the Dallas Philly game in week 17 last year. However the Eagles lined up, Bennett and Witten would move, and forced the Eagles to choose between a 10 yard pass or a 6 yard run.

If you don't believe that, ask yourself if you know the game better than NFL GMs. They clearly see something new in the position over the last 5 years, as contracts for top-tier TEs have increased at a much higher percentage than most other positions. Clearly the relative market value of a TE is greater than it was 5 years ago.

matrixnov - We can cherry pick the elite athletes at any position over time to illustrate a point. However, when one looks across the league and sees playing today; Clark, Davis, Gates, Celek, Witten, Finley, Carlson, etc... it's hard to argue against the fact this is a special time in the rise of great TEs and the position in general. (Based in no small part on some of the greats you mention.) No one is saying there weren't great athletes playing TE prior to now. Simply that they were the exception rather than what is / has become the rule.

"Because these tight ends can run"

Bowen - try this out for size - Novacek, decathalete, yeah he could run a little bit - Shannon Sharpe, ditto - Tony Gonzalez, hhmmm, yeah Gates before Gates...John Mackey, was recognized as the best athlete on the field and running machine when he played...Riley Odoms before he ate everything in Denver - Dave Casper of the Raiders, Russ Frances of the Patriots, the list goes on & on of all excellent athletes that could run that played the position my friend - in general your posts are totally relevant and insightful; however, since Ditka showed up on the scene the TE evolved passed being a third tackle in the NFL as other teams saw that value - now grant you in lower levels that was not the case as played SS in high school which we actually called "monster back" - and was responsible on pass coverage of the TE secondarily and didn't really even care as knew during the 70's the TE's in highschool would go out on a pattern twice a game at most - those days are over of course as even the school that personally matriculated at 1000yrs ago is playing the spread, so get that at lower levels, not at the pro level my friend - the TE has been an outstanding athlete on many teams since Mackey & Ditka hit the scene a few sunshines ago buddy...the "evolving" has been the QB's timeframe to get the ball out has shortened due to defensive pressure schemes and therefore the TE & slot receiver or inside the numbers players are now getting more action than ever before - not the athletes themselves are different, just not buyting it...

First off, apologize it took a seond posting of the input earlier - as dreadness pointed out "Get back to work, matrixnov!" and forgot where was at...LMAO there dreadness, good one!!!

R wrote: "Really, did you just use your high school experience as evidence for your argument?

Also, you can cite examples of athletic TEs of the past (and they are many), but the fact remains that seeing them split out, sent in motion etc. so commonly is a relatively new development."

Uh, R read what was written there - at the lower levels would agree that the TE has evolved much more recently, not in any way offering my experience to compare w/professional sports - other than to actually agree w/Bowens point of the "evolution" at the TE; however, in the NFL - not so much - obviously sparks a good debate and that's worthwhile - as to your comments concerning seeing them split out, sent in motion, etc...dude, how old are you anyway - the H-back (TE position player) has been used commonly since the 1980's - what's up w/that...there's nothing new about the TE being put into motion - now split out like Dallas Clark, sure that's somewhat different, though the Donkeys did this w/Shannon Sharpe in 3 WR sets often as well, so no just not buying it...

Dukeshire wrote: "No one is saying there weren't great athletes playing TE prior to now. Simply that they were the exception rather than what is / has become the rule"

No arguements there actually, the quantity of pass catching tight ends has superceded the number of blocking TE's definitly - the Donkeys have two blocking TE's in Graham & Quinn and probably are the exception in todays NFL rather than the rule...

Matts point: "Like I said, respect your opinion, but I am sticking with what I wrote. "

Wouldn't expect any different, and quite frankly time will tell - my guess is defenses will also change over to effectively take away the slot & TE if it becomes a true "game changer" and yet again a "new" way to attack the defensive pressure may evolve - perhaps RB's motioning out to a WR set (yeah, know Westbrook did this for years; however, not widely utilized much though back in the late 80's Barry Sanders could be a real threat to a defensive back)...

"perhaps RB's motioning out to a WR set (yeah, know Westbrook did this for years; however, not widely utilized much though back in the late 80's Barry Sanders could be a real threat to a defensive back)... "

Oops, that was his teammate at OK ST, Thurman Thomas was thinking of more in the late 80's w/the Bills - the point is still valid for both of them though, just that Sanders w/the Lions was more early 90's and of course did not mention the best RB threat at WR of all time - glaring omission there, Marshall Faulk...

Sanders was a threat to defenses period!

I think that you're definitely in the ballpark with your point, Matt. Other points are good ones too.

As the league swings from run first to pass-as-often-as-you-can, TEs are getting their due.

Certainly, there were great TEs from the 70s-90s, but its the dynamic passing attack that has been the primary response to the exotic defenses of the 00's. TEs (but also dynamic RBs like Faulk, Westbrook, Tomlinson [and Ray Rice next?) have seen their value skyrocket as OCs have designed systems around them.

Yet more practically, today's DB are mediocre tacklers, and outside LBs often have tight hips and infrequently bump at the line. Both of these elements allow any TE with speed, hands and courage, to have his way with opposing defenses (provided an accurate QB is behind center).

I've watched more video of SD then any team out there, including my own Ravens (b/c I think the 2010 Ravens will look a lot like the 2009 Chargers). Gates' greatest benefit is the offense around him, which creates A LOT of space for him to operate. A LOT. Rivers' accuracy makes up the difference on those rare occasions when Gates gets tight coverage.

BPR wrote: "Yet more practically, today's DB are mediocre tacklers"

Why is that BPR...in my estimation two reasons - one, the NFL has taken the hard hitting safety out of the game, though the position has the word safety in it, it was intended to be a bonecrushing hitter, particularly the Strong Safety - well, will go back to an illustration used a few weeks ago - the Donkeys had one of the fiercest, hard hitting safeties in the game, Steve Atwater, and when he was done they drafted Kenoy Kennedy, a poor mans Atwater - that poor kid got caught in the NFL vice, he played the game like it was supposed to be played and took on fines for like 3 weeks straight as a headhunter - he was never the same after that...if a hitter loses his vision in being able to hit then it's over, as well as the body parts on the diagram have gotten for allowable hitting smaller than the strike zone in MLB...

Secondarily, and Bowens alluded to this often, and btw guys this "debate" w/Bowen concerning the TE position, is in no way to disrespect the man, his post is one that come to daily (perhaps to his chagrin) which is my way of showing the utmost respect to his blog as it's like meth to an addict, gotta have it, his insight, particularly since though in no way did play at his level, anyone that's played in the defensive backfield can share some of the same ideas from the safety position - and totally in agreement with Bowen that though the rule changes have forced the safeties in my opinion to become less effective tacklers, Bowens point that they're coverage responsbilities in this NFL 7 on 7 drill are paramount vs being "headhunters" - guys that can't run & cover can no longer be hidden as strong safeties any longer, ain't happening...

Matrixnov

Instead of asking how old I am and telling me to read what you actually wrote, try organizing your thoughts coherently. Look at the 1:09 post I was responding to- even if I read your ellipses as a period, everything before "the 'evolving'" is one enormous, page-long sentence. The high school English teacher you had back while you were gaining your expertise on the TE position would be very disappointed. I enjoy the debate, but maybe next time you could be a bit less preachy...

matrixnov wrote:

First off, apologize it took a seond posting of the input earlier - as dreadness pointed out "Get back to work, matrixnov!" and forgot where was at...LMAO there dreadness, good one!!!

Due to the absence of subject pronouns in your rapidfire response(s), nobody knows exactly what the hell you mean to say. I mean, yeah, you clearly know football but SLOW DOWN!

Couldn't disagree with you more, Matt.

The Gates' deal isn't a deal between the NFL collectively and all tight ends collectively, it's between one team and its most productive receiver. It's not a trend, it's not an indication of where "big money will now be spent". It's one deal, one that in many people's opinions is more about sending a big "screw you" message to the Chargers' three RFAs.

Players who produce get paid. That's all there is to be taken from this deal. There happen to be several tight ends in the league who were productive last year. In many cases the production was as much about the team losing a starting receiver (the Colts) or not having a starter-quality receiver (49er's, Bucs, Raiders) than it was about the TE being legitimately one of the two best receiving playmakers on the team.

The fact that five or six teams have high quality tight ends on their roster doesn't mean that the other 24 or 25 teams are going to follow this supposed trend and gear their offences that way. You won't see significant TE production in Jacksonville, or New Orleans, or New York, or Denver, or New England, or Cincinnati, or Carolina. Coaches put the ball in the hands of their best players. Where those players line up matters not one whit.

I really don't care how much Gatsey signed for. I'm just happy that the process of getting our Charger players signed has started. Everyone has been saying that Gates was going to have to be signed to a contract before anyone else. Hopefully, the process has started.

Jeremy Crowhurst-

What will be your story when Vernon Davis breaks the bank for the Niners? Matty is right on here in this post. The TE position is going to be one that commands big coin, just like the WRs.

Paul:

You're wrong. Players get paid, not positions. When Davis gets paid, that sets the bar for any other TE who gets 900 yards and 13 touchdowns. It does nothing for the 400-4 guys that can be found on the waiver wire.

Matt's premise, that tight ends generally have become more important because a few tight ends specifically have been productive, is just plain wrong. The fact that Vernon Davis had a huge year doesn't mean that more balls will be going to the TE in Arizona, Seattle, or St. Louis. Dallas Clark's big season in Indy has no impact on the ball distribution in Houston, Jacksonville, or Tennessee.

I have to say, you guys sound like the fantasy pundits who were saying 34 year old Ernie Conwell was going to have a huge season in 2006 because "Drew Brees loves to throw to his tight ends". They, and you and Matt, overlook the larger truth: QBs throw the ball to guys who can catch it and move the chains. It doesn't matter where those guys line up.

Gatesy is worth every penny. I look forward to every weekend to watch him trash the opposition.