Tavern talk: Bad idea trading a pass rusher

Ware is too good to give up on. Someone wanting him in a trade(NFL sack leader for a season) would have to pony up a lot.

Ratliff is also too good to give up on at this time.

Anthony Spencer might be the one that teams see as having the chance to improve his stats given a no 1 pass rush role, he has to play second fiddle to Ware at this time.

The Cowboys inside linebacker isn't too bad either. Brady James has some serious game, he may not be a perfect player but he's fairly durable. There are some serious impact players there.

My thought went to the other side of the ball. The Jets are trade hungry and the Cowboys no 2 TE can block the end and has catch upside for an impressive frame.

Shawne Merriman has never been the same since he got juicing....by the way the Commissioner should step up and make any player who is found to be using drugs ineligible for any Pro Bowl eligibilty. It makes the legitimate players look tarnished. Why hasn't anyone quizzed him on this? Do a poll and the NFL fans would tell him overwhelmingly that they don't want drugged up specimens on any Pro Bowl team.

Lombardi,
What do you mean "Trading a pass rusher is never a good thing?" New England just traded a pro bowl pass rusher to the Raiders, so your saying that Belligenius shouldn't have done it? Shouldn't you qualify your statement and say "Trading a pass rusher, in his prime, is never a good thing?"

David;

You're kidding, right? Please tell me that you aren't actually suggesting that Lombardi needs to qualify his opinions to take into account the undisputable fact that "Belligenius" could never make a mistake or do something inadvisable.

If this is irony or sarcasm, kudos to you my friend. I genuinely cannot tell if you are joking. But you MUST be, right? Please tell me you are joking.

Seymour's not a pass rusher and he's past his prime. Sorry, that argument doesn't work. If it was anybody but Jerry (or maybe Al), trading Ware for a bunch of 1s and 2s might not be bad. Jerry can't draft, though.

David,

Seymour just turned 30, Ware is 27.

Patriots have depth at DE, Dallas does not.

Patriots have a high scoring offense, Dallas....well you can see where I'm going with this.

Actually, Merriman was great after his suspension. He had 8.5 sacks in 7 games before suspension, 8.5 sacks in the 5 games after suspension (2006). The next year (2007), he had 12.5 sacks in 15 games. The year after (2008) he got injured.

After his knee injury however, he hasn't been the same.

We will be finding out shortly what the trade that was offered to Jerry was, but being as he said it was a significant offer you have to think Ware or Ratliff.
However, Lombardi mentions the versatile Tashard Choice and homerun threat Felix Jones without mentioning Marion Barber who has been used less and less with the emergence of the two afore mentioned runners. While I know Felix has his injury concerns thus far into his career, you have to wonder whether Barber has much tread left on his tires with the style in which he runs as well as his own nagging injury problems as of late.
Also, something tells me that it might not have been just one player, but a package perhaps of Martellus Bennett, Miles Austin or Anthony Spencer?

Are we sure the Patriots have a high scoring offense Steven? They did last week against an 0-5 (going into the game) Titans team starting their number 4 and 5 corners (late round rookies) on the Patriots number 1 and 2 WR, and putting a linebacker on the slot receiver. The Pats played well, and if nothing else maybe it gives Brady confidence in his knee, which is the bigger story. Beating a bad Titans team that was incredibly undermanned, not so much. The rest of their games this year the Pats offense has been underwhelming.

Seymour will have one of the best years he has had this year and will brake his all time sack total. And lets not forget Seymour is a possible Hall of Fame DE/DT that still has 2 or 3 good years left im him.

As for the dude in the comments that wrote that New England has depth on the D line give me a brake. New Englands D is not the same without Seymour and when they do not make the playoffs this year even with the cream puff schedules the NFL give them every year the D will be to blame.

You give me a sack leader DE/DT once every 10 year type player over a number one pick anyday. I go to Vegas if I want to gamble, I will take the sure thing.

On the Chargers you were the guy blowing smoke up the backs of the Chargers all off season to anyone that would listen, talking about their talent and depth. They are not a very good team and have been declining each year much like the New England team. Hey teams have there day and one day get old and fall back down the ladder. And others with the new young talent take their place. Both New England and the Chargers are headed back to a place that they have called home for over 85% of their history, the bottom.

It was Martellus Bennett not Ware.

Diana:

Jealousy is a terrible thing. You should watch some football. All the teams in the league wish they were "declining" like the Patriots, if that is what you call it. Cream Puff schedule? Undefeated Jets, Atlanta, Baltimore and Denver ...4 games in a row? All close games with Brady just trying to get his rythym back and the new YOUNG players getting their feet wet. Not even close to what is happening with the Chargers.

It was the TE Bennett. The offer came from the Patriots.

Remember when 99% of the known universe hated the Mario Williams pick because Reggie Bush was a 'once in a generation player'? And then 8-10 months later those 99%er's changed their story saying clearly Houston should have taken Vince Young all along? Good times.

I am a big LT fan. He is one of my all-time favorite NFLers, but the decline in his productivity is obvious. He is not the back he was in '06, and Merriman's foolish decision not to have knee surgery after the end of the '07 season is one of the biggest reasons the SD defense is struggling. Why he chose not to have surgery after that season I will never know. I hope he gets back to the player I saw his first 3 years in the league. Trading dominating pass rushers is never a good thing. I think it is rare to find great pass rushers like finding great pass rushers. Freeney in Indy is tearing it up. I look at him just blowing things up. He truly makes other defenders on the line better. Ask Robert Mathis.

No one would ever call Richard Seymour an elite pass rusher. A great DT? Yes. A 3-down disruptor? Absolutely. But a pure pass rusher? Never. In 8 years he averaged 5 sacks a year. Good, solid production.

The trade was all about getting the most for him right now, as his contract is up after this year and the Pats were not going to pay him what he wants. The fact that they got a first rounder for him is beautiful: they drove a nice, fully loaded Cadillac (not a Ferrari) for 8 years, turned it in and got a another brand new one straight up. Try that with YOUR car dealer.

Mr. Lombardi, Ware is an OLB not a DE. I have seen you make this mistake several times now.

And no, an OLB in a 3-4 is not the same as a DE on a 4-3.

We'll take Ware in Tennessee!!! Come on now!!

RE: LT. At least I was right about ONE thing this NFL season. Yep. He's done done done. Slow. Injury-prone. A crybaby. Whiney. San Diego would have done well to have traded LT and kept Michael Turner. I knew that would bite them in the ass.

"Patriots have depth at DE, Dallas does not. "

Pay attention: Seymour is a DE in a 3-4. That makes him closer to a DT in the traditional scheme (4-3). Ware is an OLB in a 3-4, which would make him closer to a DE in the 4-3.

Traditionally a DE in a 3-4 is not a pass rusher. The OLBs are.

Shawne Merriman looks like every other player that had to discontinue his drug regimen after getting caught.
Consider the performance drop off and/or sudden rash of injuries for these players in the 2005 (and following) season(s) after the NFL widened what they tested for in April of 05 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/26/AR2005042601232.html) :

Jamal Lewis (good back, then hurt, then GREAT back, then injured)
Ray Lewis (he's slowing down, now he is a monster again, slowing down, now is pretty good again)
Priest Holmes (good back, then hurt, then GREAT back, then injured)
Jimmy Smith (strangely abrupt retirement after two great seasons)
Shaun Alexander (good back, then GREAT back, then injured)
Ed Reed (best time at the combine was 4.57 - does he look that slow now? Looks like a 4.3 guy to me) (and he was hurt in 2005)

There are a LOT more of these - these were just the ones involved with the Ravens. Check the older Broncos players who thrived from 2000-2004 to see some more patterns...

Merriman just needs a better pharmacist.

The trade offer for Bennett came from the Bengals, not the Patriots.

Scott Bolander, maybe you should do some research before making a claim that a player's numbers are enhanced by steroids. Since I'm a Maryland alumnus, I did the research because I like to see Merriman do well in the pros. So if you saw my comment earlier you would have seen this information on Merriman's production before and after his suspension:

"Actually, Merriman was great after his suspension. He had 8.5 sacks in 7 games before suspension, 8.5 sacks in the 5 games after suspension (2006). The next year (2007), he had 12.5 sacks in 15 games. The year after (2008) he got injured.

After his knee injury however, he hasn't been the same."

Great point, Mike. This is a pass-first league now. Pass rushers and the threat they bring as well as the need to game plan to stop them means pass rushers are premium commodities. Just like QBs.

@Scott Bolander,


Great points!

The Dallas Cowboy website states that Cincinnatti may have willing to trade a number one pick for TE Martellus Bennett.

Lombardi, in the case of LT you fail to put down his rushing attempts per game are down, sure his yards are down with the great play of Philip Rivers and the move away from Schottenheimer's power running and more to Norv Turners pass friendly offence.

Tomlinson's yards per carry has fallen each of the last four years:

2006: 5.2
2007: 4.7
2008: 3.8
2009: 3.7