Tavern talk: Blue team observations

I think the Broncos might have a couple players who could make the jump to blue on defense this year.
DJ Williams is very talented and a beast when on the field, Champ can still be blue, even Dawkins can still be blue.

Another player I think that can do it is Elvis Dumervil, he is a pass rushing machine and should have 10+ sacks standing up this year, if he proves to be a force against the run as well he will definitely be blue.

I don't understand all the love for GB. Playing in a very weak division, they didn't even make the playoffs last year. How does that make McCarthy some kind of coaching genius on the verge of blue status? I see a guy who could be on thin ice by midseason, with Capers looking over his shoulder and reminding everyone that he used to be a headcoach and could easily take over.

Sorry Maneater, but I have to love the love for GB.... The D looks good this year, and keep in mind that except for the QB and a couple of lineman (Corey Williams, Tauscher) This is the team that took NYG to OT two years back in the NFC Championship... Yes, last year was bad, but where they failed was to hold leads after being in the thick of the race w/ six games to go (attribute that to the loss of Barnett and Jenkins) ALSO... the whole Favrenstein adventure took its toll as well... being one year removed, the team has more focus than last year at this time.

THere are a lot of ifs to come through this year - IF they stay healthy especially QB and DLIne. If they are able to keep up the focus and enthusiasm they are showing now and IF the D comes through with a top 10 performance to go with the top 10 offense.

YES I AM A PACKER fan, but I will enjoy the season more if Mike is right...

Meat, have you been watching the offensive clinic the Packers have been putting on in the last two years? That would be why. How often do you see a first-year starter put up 4,000 yards? McCarthy coaxed two superb seasons out of two very different quarterbacks in consecutive years with his superb offensive gameplans and quarterback coaching. The defense sank our season last year, and if Capers has fixed it as it would appear, 2009 could be a great year for the Pack.

How can Wade Phillips be one of the top 30 (by winning percentage) winningest coaches of all time and not even merit an almost blue? Its not like there are a litany of game management errors you can list on him.... Otherwise, great work!

Mr. Lombardi, you are absolutely to high on the Bills. This team cannot rush the passer with any ferocity. Their QB play is more and more shoddy as the preseason wears on. Their LT position is not set in stone from reports I hear. They don't have a great deal of talent on their roster. As far as the Packers, I love Mike McCarthy. I love his approach. I love their talent. Even with a transition to a 3-4 defense, I think this team could win the NFC North. If Baltimore can get some better playmakers on offense, they will be even more nasty than they are now. Love the Ravens.

Meateater, The Packers were a great team in 2007 when they were healthy. In 2008 they ended up with a losing record, but they were "in" 15 of the 16 games, and came very close to winning record, despite the fact that a lot of starters were regularly out with injury. In 2007, starters missed a combined 10 games due to injury, starters missed a combined 44 games due to injury in 2008. I know "injuries are a part of the game" but few, if any, defensive units will be very successful without their starting DE, MLB, and SS on IR and one of the starting Corners missing about 6 weeks. McCarthy is heavily responsible for the offense's play, and that unit has played at a very high level for the past two years and looks to be even stronger in 2009. I don't think he needs to be worried about his job security.

GB is getting all the love for a few reasons.
1. Cullen Jenkins (Blue) was on IR after the second game last season.
2. Almost Blue Al Harris and Nick Barnett missed significant time as well. Aaron Rodgers had a bum shoulder and Ryan Grant had a nagging hamstring injury all year.
3. The Packers defensive scheme was an almost pure m2m scheme in coverage, which was (and is) relatively simple for other teams to counter (for example isolate slow LB on quick RB). Now, the 3-4 zone blitzing scheme offers different types of coverages and blitz packages that are not blatantly obvious.
4. Aaron Rodgers is in his second year starting, so he should have an excellent grasp of the offense. Not to mention the shocking improvement of TE Jermichael Finley.
5. McCarthy knows offense and quarterbacks. Capers knows the 3-4. I don't think either of them are/were amazing head coaches but together... I think they'll do alright.
6. Adding B.J. Raji and perhaps even Clay Matthews Jr. should improve the overall athleticism of the defense. Both should specifically impact 3rd downs since they are already starters in the nickel defense.

meateater, you don't get the dynamic in GB right now. Everybody's bought into the structure of the coaching staff, along with everybody's roster spots and roles. It's a team where everybody knows their job.

If they lost a bunch of games, then, yeah... he might be on the hot-seat. But that's not going to happen. It would be stupid for anyone to say that their record could have been better last year if they'd gotten this or that break, but the fact is that they lost several close games because their defense couldn't get off the field. With Capers (and the new scheme he brought) and the good draft they had (including at least two guys who will make significant contributions on defense), and the way that several guys who were injured either came back strong or were replaced, there's every reason to think that they'll do much better this year. Last year, they were a very talented but fatally flawed team. This year, they fixed the flaw.

...although I will say that McCarthy does annoy me with the way he brings the team indoors everytime it drizzles or there's a little breeze, but that's just me... It's like he's trying to engineer a perfectly smooth practice where everything goes exactly by the numbers. And that's fine. But it just seems to me that you don't train mental toughness when you retreat to the indoor facility everytime there's a little weather. Also, the coaches hold players out of practice forever when they get the slightest little ouchy-boo-boo. I mean... frickin'-A... it's freaking Green Bay football! Man up!

Mike, I think you gave Baltimore that pat on the head ("Baltimore is one more draft away from being a very good team for a very long time ") because they had a great late run last year and you wished your scheme scored them higher. How does it make sense that Baltimore, at 46 points, would be a good team if it had a good draft that added, for example, two almost blues at 5.5 each or one real blue at 10? That would only lift them to 56, the level of the Redskins. That's not such a great level.

The fact that Minny is ahead of GB invalidates this whole waste-of-time project.

But the hayseeds in Minny (aka Flyover Country) will love you more.

We GB fans know the NFP's favorite team is the Packers as nearly everyone writing here has a connection to the best franchise in the NFL, so we'll let this one slide.

Sorry rubes, but the truth hurts.

The Ravens are ready to win now. Even if the D has gotten a little worse from last year (I don't think so, but a popular refrain from the national media), the offense will be much better b/c Flacco is entering his second year. Look for the Ravens to have at least 12 wins this year.

As far as blues go I don't think you're too high on the Bills. They have that many guys that are that good, it's just the rest of the roster. Offensively and defensively they are built from the outside-in, which you seem to disagree with (and I'm with you). Their DBs and their offensive skill players are the highlight on their side of the ball. The LBs and QB are middling. Then, their lines are thin on talent and depth. I believe a team cannot be successful without their lines being successful. They Bills will fail because their lines are so bad it will not allow their blues to shine. The management should have worked from the inside-out, not the other way around.

For Green Bay, all you need to do is compare NFL scoring ranks for OFF and DEF for 2007 & 2008. 2008 OFF ranked 5th in points (26 ppg) in NFL vs 4th in 2007 (27), so no real difference there. The DEF ranked 11th in Points given up in 2007 (18 ppg) and dropped to 22nd in 2008 (23 ppg). GB lost alot of close games in 2008 reflected in the 5 more ppg on DEF.

This year so far, OFF looks even better with an improved Rodgers at QB (scary coming off a 4,000 yard season), a healthy Ryan Grant, and an emerging stud in 2nd year TE Jermichael Finley. Also OFF line looks better this year with a healthy Chad Clifton and improved younger lineman from 2008.

2008 DEF was hurt by major time missed by Cullen Jenkins and Nick Barnett and a hurt Atari BIgby (S) who was ineffective pretty much all year. Switch to 3-4 this year seems to fit the talents of the players better and has all players trying to win jobs again. I think this has had GB playing harder than opponents in preseason so far, which may make them look more dominant than they really are.

It remains to be seen if the DEF will maintain this intensity throughout the season once they have won their positions. If they do, then GB could well be in NFC Championship game again in 2009.

Mike,

Wow, I can't believe how down on Minnesota you are...Have you seen the team in the preseason so far? They've looked NASTY on defense. All this team has to do is score 21 points a game to win. Also, I haven't heard a peep out of you about Favre and his last effort, he looked good, really good. If I've read you correctly, one of your major criticisms was the inability to recognize the blitz, which is no longer a concern.

I know Green Bay has looked good, and I'm not going to bash them, but come on, I think you're going to eat some crow...

Bowen, you need to challenge Mike on his Minny hate...you may be able to recover that bet you're going to lose...double or nothing baby...how about you offer him first class and a 5 star hotel if Minny doesn't take the division, but the bet's off is Minny takes the division?

How would you feel about taking that bet Mike?

I think you forgot about Jason Brown. He is a lot better than Mangold and Matt Birk. St. Louis blows, but that guy is one of the best 12 or 15 offensive lineman in the league. Baltimore will miss him.

I would agree that Tye Hill should have gone later in the draft because of his size, however the guy had NFL talent coming out of Clemson. I think the trade has more to do with the fact that he has been unable to bounce back from his injuries.

Think the whole 'Blue' thing is a little overdone. I'd rather see grades based upon certain facets of the game (i.e. passing attack / pass protection / rush blocking / rushing attack / pass rush / rush defense / secondary / ST coverage / ST returns) or by position grouping. Sometimes 'teams' with no blue-chippers on a defensive-line can be very, very effective as a unit. Some teams (Broncos rushing attack for the last 10 years) can have very good areas based on their effectiveness as a unit rather than a standout player.

Also, this system really doesn't give proper value to 'key' positions. I think teams with great QB's, LT's, CB's, Rush Ends are usually the better teams. Sure have a 'bue' C or TE makes a team better, but not without the QB and/or LT to go with.

I think the 'blue' analogy would work better for basketball. Just my 2 cents.

Favre looked like an old man against the Texans. I don't think he looked great at all. He looked a lot like he's afraid to get hit, which is exactly how he's looked the last couple years. And I seriously question his ability to throw any kind of deep ball any more, as well as intermediate length throws. He throws great slants and screens. Anything else and he's about average.

How many blue chippers were on the 2001 Patriots team? 2-3? If collection of talented individuals won Super Bowls, the Redskins would be in the middle of a dynasty.