Hernandez also impressive, but Spikes raises some concerns. Wes Bunting
The National Football Post breaks down the times and performances of some of the top prospects at the University of Florida’s pro day Wednesday:
TE Aaron Hernandez (6-3, 245)
It’s no secret that I’m a huge fan of Aaron Hernandez and think he has the ability to be a real X-factor in the Dallas Clark-type mold at the next level. That’s why I graded him out as one of the top prospects in the entire draft. All Hernandez did Wednesday at his pro day was display the speed (4.56-second 40) to consistently get down the seam and the strength (30 reps of 225 pounds) to potentially develop into a very capable “on the line Y” in the NFL. I still think he’ll be at his best split out and moved around on offense, but the guy can consistently separate in the pass game and did nothing but confirm my assessment of him.
ILB Brandon Spikes (6-3, 249)
I guess there’s a reason Brandon Spikes didn’t run at the NFL Combine. His 5.05 time in the 40 yesterday can be summed up in one word: brutal. We knew coming in that Spikes wasn’t the greatest athlete, and you could tell at the combine that he looked uncomfortable and stiff during position drills. However, it’s hard to imagine any team taking a shot on an inside linebacker who runs in the 5.0-plus range before the fourth round. Spikes’ tape is good, and he does have the ability to find the football and create as a downhill guy. But you have to question his ability to make plays sideline to sideline with his lack of pure straight-line speed. There are reports that he was a little banged up and could run again before the draft, but either way, this is the kind of time that will make NFL officials cringe when they’re deciding on Spikes come draft day.
CB Joe Haden (5-11, 193)
Now that was the kind of performance we expected from Joe Haden at the combine. Haden reportedly ran in the low/mid 4.4 range and showed everyone in attendance that he has the ability to turn and run with NFL-caliber receivers down the field – no shock there. On tape, Haden clearly showcases the best first step in the country when asked to click and close on the ball and looks like an ideal fit as a potential Cover 2 guy. But he’s also physical off the line, has the ability to press and displays natural ball skills down the field in man coverage. Again, so much was made of his ugly 4.58 at the combine, but on tape, he definitely looked more like a 4.4 guy. Confirming it at his pro day likely cemented his spot in the top half of the first round.
WR David Nelson (6-5, 212)
One guy whose stock might have risen the most was wideout David Nelson, who at 6-5 and 212 pounds was able to run in the high 4.4/low 4.5 range in sloppy filed conditions, showing impressive straight-line speed for his size. Plus, he was said to look very good during position drills, catching the football and adjusting to throws. And although he finished the year with only 25 receptions for 291 yards, it’s hard to ignore a 6-5 receiver who can run as well as Nelson. He could get some attention toward the back end of the draft.
QB Tim Tebow (6-3, 236)
It’s been all of six weeks since we last saw the Florida quarterback at the Senior Bowl, and boy, has he come a long way. It makes you wonder: If Tim Tebow was able to significantly tighten up his release and pretty much learn the footwork necessary to take snaps from under center in that short a time span, what kind of upside does he have at the next level?
Tebow looked so much more compact and natural in his drop, which is not surprising for an athlete of his caliber. However, his ability to generate torque from his lower half and maintain his balance when asked to boot and throw on the move was a world of improvement from what we saw in Mobile, Ala. He looked fluid and much more technically sound from the waist down – which is where accuracy starts and ends at the quarterback position -- and although he has a tendency to get overextended with his lower half when trying to drive the ball down the field, it’s still unreal to see this much of an improved in such a short time.
Now, as for his throwing motion, it’s tighter and more compact, which in turn seems to have not only improved his ability to spin a cleaner ball but also his overall timing.
I still believe that the notion that Tebow lacks the accuracy down the field to make all the throws in the NFL is far from the truth. Instead, I think his inability to consistently complete NFL-type routes in the intermediate/deep passing game has much more to do with his overall lack of rhythm and timing. Being able to clean up his footwork and tighten up his release makes it logical that his rhythm and timing in the pass game will improve, which will ultimately make him a more accurate passer.
Overall, there’s not too much negative to say about Tebow after a performance like this. Is he there yet? No. But it says a lot about any quarterback who’s had the success he’s had and is still willing to completely rework his throwing motion while trying to learn the intricacies of taking snaps from under center.
Tebow has the skill set to be an NFL quarterback; there’s no denying that. But if this workout proved anything, it’s that if given enough time to work at his craft and develop further at the position, he has the passion and work rate to mature into a successful pro quarterback.
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Tebow is not good. If I were a GM I might draft him in the 6th or 7th as a special teams player but that's it.
Other than Mike Vick, there haven't been too many guys playing the QB position who could match Tebow's raw athletic ability. His size, speed, strength and agility scores are on par for top-rated LBs or RBs. The question now is whether he will be an average at best thrower or if he can be somewhat above average. He doesn't have to be Peyton Manning to be very effective. NFL defenses tend to assume QBs will not try to pick up first downs with their feet, except in emergencies. Tebow can do it and punish DBs on the back end of the play. Ask Eric Berry if you don't believe me.
I see an awful lot of potential upside here for the right team.
Thanks Billiam for proving why you are not a GM. Might be the dumbest comment I have ever read.
Wes,
If you noticed (I did), his 'skills' were displayed without NFL defensive players rushing him from all sides. Additionally, his new, 'clean', delivery was unveiled without pads. If you watched his throws, there is no way he can make those same shoulder rotations with his mass, WITH shoulder pads on.
1.) Players harrassing him will undoubtedly cause him to revert to his old, side-armed style.
2.) Speaking of, that same side-armed delivery wasn't just how he had thrown his whole life, it was a result of TT carrying too much bulk in his shoulders, arms, back, and chest. Look at Brady Quinn, then look at Aaron Rodgers. As you said, ball velocity comes from your legs and footwork, not your arm mass.
3.) I don't mind Tebow personally, but if you think that NFL players will be following this guy into battle, with his holier-than-thou attitude, and clear ADHD, you obviously aren't the best judge of NFL players.
4.) People compare him to Mike Vick. Are you insane? His best comparison would be Duante Culpepper, with Brady Quinn's arm, and Cade McNown's brain.
5.) If he wants to be a QB, I give him 3 years, max.
"But if this workout proved anything, it’s that if given enough time to work at his craft and develop further at the position, he has the passion and work rate to mature into a successful pro quarterback."
This. Imagine, for example, that "that guy in Oakland" had this. Then he wouldn't be worried about "that other guy in Oakland" who *does* have it, taking his job (again).
Instant upgrade over Jamarcus. Tebow is working at it.
Looks like he is trying to square up to his target, get the hips facing that way and unload a pass.
My prob with this is that a lefty footwork is opposite so watching it always gives me a time trying to see where the foot placement should be. More my limitations, than those of Tebow, at this time.
Bill Walsh had time to get Steve Young in after two leagues and two very bad teams had him mechanically shot. He timed out pretty well.
Tony Romo needed how long to develop in Dallas? He's still a work in progress but has some really good moments, he has command and swagger.
So the guy isn't coming in ready to go and plug into a system entirely. Imagine the idea of paying a coach to actually, coach, instead of just ride along with the next phenom passer.
To all the Tebow haters: what *exactly* makes him so horrible? If A-Rodge hadn't sat behind Favre, who knows how he would have faired. Most rookie QBs struggle. That's why you don't start a rookie! No matter how great a QB, it's not a good idea. Even Peyton struggled as a rook. I'm not saying Tebow is amazing and will come in and win the SB. What I'm saying is that, given a couple of years, given his work ethic, given his "coachability," and given the right coach, Tebow has the potential to become a great, great QB. That's why, IMHO, GB should draft him in the third or fourth round, and then, years later, trade him for a first, or maybe two. We already have a proven QB development system. A-Rodge did great, and apparently Matt Flynn is looking not so bad (granted, Brohm didn't do so hot, but 2/3 isn't that bad). I do agree, however, that first or second round, maybe even third, is a bit high.
Are you guys reading the same thing I am? Look, no one is saying the kid is going to be a franchise QB next year. They are saying the improvement is palpable and encouraging. It shows there's a lot there for a coach who can teach. Look, Jay Cutler is already a proven QB in the NFL. But Mike Martz is going to break him down and build him back up. He'll want improvement everywhere, in football, angle of release, etc.
It's called coaching. No one comes in ready made. NO ONE. So give the kid some credit for doing what he has to do and recognize the talent that allows him to make the adjustments.
It's looking more like someone is going to roll the dice big on a guy they think can be a game changer in a year or two. Sorry Tebow haters.
Leinart, Young, Smith, Russell - was Tebow truly that much a better college qb than these guys? Is he really more athletic of a runner than Young? A better passer than Leinart or Smith? Possess a better arm than Russell? I like many of you saw footage of his workout that has wowed so many (because it was not terrible). Did you see someone who could make all the throws? Who was accurate? I didn't and as for improved timing these are his team mates here should be better don't you think? Everyone is caught more in the persona of Tim Tebow and not the hard reality of wether he can actually play in the NFL. I just do not see it. He is inaccurate. Yes he is strong and relatively fast but will defenses really be scared of him running the ball as say a Young or a Vick? No. As for his willingness to be coached up and listen. Well, why did he not do this last season? Why now? Why is he and Meyer not taken to task to improve this much earlier in his collegiate career? And last but not least can he read NFL defenses? Can he command an NFL offense? Boy I just do not see it...
Cutler's throwing motion and velocity are fine. His poblem is in-between his ears (his brain, not his 5 chins).
@BrainAu, You are comparing him to guys drafted at the top of the first round. Guys who were supposed to be ready to play at a high level, but for one reason or another, weren't. No one is saying Tebow should go in the first five or even ten picks. Only that he has the potential to be a game changer, based on his athleticism, toughness, character, etc. It will take the right coach, team and system, but no one can deny the guy is a winner and is not afraid to put a team on his back.
From what I saw on his throws, he holds the ball too high and is very mechanical from there.
What I find somewhat fascinating is that Wes talks about other players and eliminates them on their measurables not taking into account their intangibles. I remember last year some experts even called Tyrone McKenzie's heart into question because he'd gone to three different schools.
Take Spikes above. It seems that the only thing he does is make plays but Wes downgrades him to "brutal." Then Tebow comes up and yep, he can learn, he can almost fly even though his "tangibles" are like any mid-level prospect. Any other player with his skill set would also get the tag "brutal." Most scouts seem to think Tebow's new motion is still very stiff. But what do I know, I'm not employed by a team, I'm just a mere fan.
I don't wish Tebow any ill but I hate the hype surrounding him. Wes Bunting probably isn't doing him any favors when it's clear this guy is a football player without a position (including QB).
Bob, Cutler's throwing motion may be fine, but that won't stop Martz from breaking it down and getting it to where he thinks it should be. And when you say "between the ears" I know you don't mean he's stupid. Martz is a coach, and he is always working.
Meateater makes a good point when he says you can't compare him to a top ten pick. That's not the point.
If you don't like the guy because he's pro-life or pro-god or pro-American Idol, that's your prerogative. I try to ignore all that stuff and the NFL won't let him put it on his eye black.
But why is it so hard to believe that his talent and dedication might make him a good QB in the future?
OK Brian, I see it now. You're asking if Tebow was as good a College QB as the others. I would say yes, without a doubt, and his record shows it. The SEC championship game against 'Bama in '08 he practically won by himself.
As for he didn't demand to be coached up by his college coach the year before, that's not his job. His job is to play the way the coach tells him to play.
Meyer runs the spread, out of the shotgun. Meyer's job is win college football games and creates mismatches that do just that. His job is not, repeat, NOT, to get players ready for the next level.
QBs do have a choice of where they want to go and they can take preperation for the next level into consideration.
What's next, should Sam Bradford have demanded Bob Swoops get him under center too?
You all are reaching so far you're likely to fall out of the tree.
Wes Bunting, when was the last time a left handed QB excelled in the NFL? I can think of Steve Young (after spending years learning behind Montana), and Mark Brunell. Why this is, I'm not sure. But face it- the overwhelming number of QB's have been right handed.
Maybe Tebow will be the exception. I am not ruling it out. But I also wouldn't wager a copper penny on it.
BearMarket: I could not have said it better myself.
Not many Bear fan I agree with good job!!
Wow, Bob. Tell us what you really think.
I think the biggest question with scouting a guy like Tebow is whether you're drafting him as a project or as a starter. I think he's great as a project: he's got a rare combination of athletic ability, he doesn't have off-field problems, and he's a proven hard worker. But one question I have to ask: why do so many internet commenters feel so confident they can tell the difference between an NFL quality quarterback and one who can't hack it in the pros when we've seen time and again that these guys are very hard to project?
My point is just this: Look at the varied paths of Brady, Romo, Warner, and last year's passing leader, Matt Schaub. Drew Brees fell to the Chargers entirely because no one thought he could overcome his lack of height. None of these guys were considered slam dunk first rounders -- but someone put Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman, JP Losman, Alex Smith, Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, and JaMarcus Russell in that category, and paid them a ton of cash as the future of the franchise (and only in one case, JaMarcus's, is the franchise run by the criminally insane).
As a second day pick, I think Tebow easily has as much or more potential as any of these guys, and you get him without having to mortgage your franchise's future with a massive contract. He could be a steal, he could be a waste of a pick, but at least it won't cost you a lot.
Interesting that this author thinks he looked great. Many in attendance said that he had changed his throwing motion, but he looked awkward and was inaccurate on many throws, with no defenders. In some situations, he did revert to his old style. Apparently folks see what they want to see, but a lot of scouts said he would be a big project because in game conditions, one has no time to think and instinct takes over.
I think Tebow can contribute in some capacity, just not sure what. I do hope my Patriots grab him in the 2nd round or later. He has the tools, mentality and versatility that they like.
LOL @ Bob for picking on Cutler for being kinda fat.
I can think of a team that has a need at tight end and has some experience converting Kent State players to other positions at which they will be successful at? Can you say Julian Edelman. This guy sounds perfect for The Genius and the Patriots.
I really like TIm Tebow. He is going to be a great pro. I am not sure if he is going to be a quarterback the whole time.
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Mar 18, 2010
02:52 PM
What about Riley Cooper?