Wednesday whys: It's all about Brett

Andrew, to what extent do you think Brett's consecutive starts streak played into this decision?

You sound more like a spurred fan then an analyst.

Andrew comments about Vikings placing his level on ex Packers is kind of a self serving egotistical statement based on where you used to work. The examples of players you offer come over a time when the Vikings have changed ownership, head coaches and GM's.

So you are saying that out-going executives make sure new ones know where to get coaches and players from?

Andrew, could you comment on the origins of the ill will between Brett and Ted Thompson. This seems to have started long before last year.

I still think if Big Erv was alive none of this would happened. I think Brett looked up to him more than anyone else.

Randal, I think you misreading. This is all very factual and fair stuff here.

Ted Thompson is the only man in football to stand up to this diva. Witness the gutless turd, Childress, who actually had to chauffeur him from the airport while the rest of the team was at Winter Park getting ready for practice. What a joke.

Thanks for the good inside analysis Andrew. Between you and Michael Lombardi, I am reminded why NFP is one of the few places on the web one can actually find intelligent analysis on current football news. It seems like most of the major media outlets are afraid of the truth when it comes to the media darlings like Favre.

Brett is going down, the Vikings will be sorry they made the move...

Marvin Harrison and Edgerrin James never officially retired - I'm sure if they were asked to participate in a camp from the start of August they would gladly have shown up and been leaders/mentors. I can't see either of those guys being so indecisive and selfish whereas Favre has given all other retired or inactive players a bad name. It's unfortunate.

The Vikings know the only way to win is to emulate Green Bay, so they collect old, washed up Packers thinking that will get them to the top.

Glad this will be Chilly's last year in Minnesota. What a joke he is as a head coach!

Andrew,

Your professionalism and insight when reporting on the Packers is truly second to none on the interwebs.

Glad to see you back in the football world Andrew. Things in GB are wild and can't wait for the season to begin. Great article, my thoughts exactly. DIVA with a capital D!

Richard,

Favre started to not like Thompson when the GM Favre couldn't get some players he wanted. And this is before Favre left.

I'd like to echo what someone else said here, it really is great to read this quality of discussion about football. Comparing it to most football 'writing' is laughable.

Two things. First, as a lifelong, born and raised in Eau Claire Packers fan, I still just don't see the big deal. The Packers don't want him, he wants to play. Had the Packers wanted him, I'm sure they would have gone to him and he'd be in camp now. They didn't, the Vikings do, good luck to everyone.

Second, why is it that when young, rich black athletes do seemingly bizarre and silly things (Crabtree, Andre Smith right now) we always talk about their entourage and hangers on, while when an older, rich white athlete does something many people find just as bizarre and silly we don't hear anything about their 'advisors?' Frankly I think in both cases the athlete bears the full responsibility, but why do we hear snickering comments about Crab's relatives and nobody questions how Deanna (or Cook or anyone else around Favre) can let him 'tarnish his legacy?'

Finally, apropos of nothing, I'm very impressed with Ted Thompson. He's been careful with his money and developed talent within. I'm an Arsenal fan in the English football league and both the Gunners and the Packers have followed a similar, careful plan. Don't splash the cash in big trades but use it for guys who long-term fit the team and the mission, keep your eye on improving any position on the team where you can and it's at a prudent price. Look at the top four receivers on the Packers, would you trade them for any in the league? I'm looking forward to this year, I think either Arsenal or the Pack are going to bring home a trophy this year, maybe both.

"Dave-
Insightful comment. I will never forget the call from Bus when we were in Oakland that Irv had passed. When Brett spoke to the team that night, it may have been his finest moment."


The standing ovation from Oakland fans was a great moment of support for one the best ever to play the game.

I believe Ted Thompson and Coach McCarthy have done a great job in Green Bay. From the moment Thompson arrived on the scene, he was preparing the team for the day Brett would no longer be there. That day arrived last year and the Packers were ready. I expect no long time march through the wilderness like the team suffered when Coach Lombardi left and Bart Starr retired. The Packers are a strong deep young team -- with a quality qb at the helm.

I'm a Packers stockholder and could not be prouder of my team.

I wish Brett well (except twice this year).

And thanks, Andrew, for well constructed insightful commentary.

Andrew, you mentioned Wally Pipp, who I've invoked in discussing Favre with my fellow Packer backers. Over the years, Favre always talked in his sit down interviews with the networks about how he never took a practice off or missed a game because he knew there's always someone waiting to take over, just as Favre put the Majik Man to pasture. Prior to the 2007 season, it was well documented how Favre hired a personal trainer, moved the guy to Mississippi, and worked all summer, especially on his core. He made nearly all the OTAs, minicamps, and training camp. He came in that year in great shape and had one of his finest seasons.

Contrast that to the 2008 off season. Favre announces to the Packers - twice - that March that he was retiring. He attended no practices, no OTAs, no minicamps. He doesn't hire a trainer. In fact, all he does is toss a ball to high school kids. He shows up at training camp out of shape and having missed valuable team time. Favre Wally Pipped himself. The Packers had a legitimate Plan B in Rodgers and put that plan into effect. For all the talk from Favre over the years about looking over his shoulder, he didn't seem to recognize that he had put himself in the situation he himself created. Remember, McCarthy said that Thompson and McCarthy were set to leave the league meetings in March 2008 to announce Favre's return, but Favre retired for the second time that month and they cancelled the announcement.

Look what happened to Favre last year. Fast start, big fade. That wasn't all due to a bicep injury. At his age, Favre needs to be doing the Jerry Rice offseason workouts. Didn't do it; faded down the stretch, cost the team the playoffs. What is different this year? No personal trainer during the summer. No OTAs, no minicamps, missed weeks of training camp. Favre won't hold up all season. He's not in shape.

As a note, the three seasons that Darrell Bevell served as Favre's QB coach in Green Bay are the three consecutive seasons in Favre's career that he threw the most interceptions for a three year period. Sherman and Bevell couldn't control Favre then; I don't think Coach "Klink" Childress and Bevell will do it this year, either. Klink and the Vikings played right into Favre's hand, from all the twitter messages begging him to come north, to Klink's weekly calls, to the private jet to pick him up, to the coach gettting him at the airport personally while the team readied to practice, to walking right up and into the huddle without any introductions. They just fed Favre's craving for adulation.

I've never seen anyone so completely loved as Favre was in Green Bay who constantly needed that love and adulation expressed to him.

Were he playing anywhere else, I'd wish him well. As he's leading the Packers' biggest rival, I hope he has a miserable season. As Brett says, it's just football!

Andrew

I had to laugh when Childress said last night that Brett was 100% committed.
I remember McCarthy last year, the day after the marathon night meeting with Favre.
McCarthy said that he couldn't get Brett to say that he was 100% commtted to do all of
the necessary tasks (late night film study, etc..). Why does Childress think that Favre will
do any of that? He did no special off season training either other than throw to high school kids again. At least last year it was documented that he was preparing.

Favre looked and sounded like a guy trying to justify to himself his decision. He uses his kid as a justification. Really uncomfortable and grasping. Just say that you want to play and you want to get your chance to stick it to Ted

Then he says "if you are a true Packer fan, you understand"
Unreal, I think it is Brett who does not understand

Well written, Andrew.

Your comment about the Vikings signing ex-Packer players and coaches does give one food for thought. I honestly feel that is a reflection of the quality of people that have been in Green Bay. Heck, I remember the 70s and 80s, and during that time I don't recall too many ex-Packers playing elsewhere.

But, after Wolf and Holmgren came to town, you see it everywhere. They brought in and developed quality people. The list is too long to bring up. Not to mention a certain writer for the NFP!

And I feel that Ted Thompson is doing the same thing.

Andrew, Great article. Favre has always seemed like two different people to me, On the field, he used to be the toughest player ever. The more he was hurt or the worse the conditions, the better he played. As he got older, he seemed much more reluctant to take a hit and seemed to get rattled when teams pressured him. He seems to have become intimidated by cold weather. Probably just because of age and the hits he took when he was younger. Lord knows I am not what I was15 years ago. Throughout his entire career he seemed to regularly dare opposing teams to try to pick him-that never changed. He seemed totally confident on the field. Off the field, a younger Brett seemed like a typical young star athlete-cocky, drinking and running around too much, etc. What I don't get is what happened to him in the last 5 years or so. He has become an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. The guy owns all the records and is a first ballot HOF'er. Isn't that good enough for him?. Why all the drama? Why can't he just go away? If he is really unable to make decisions on his own, why is that? This whole thing with him has just gotten crazy. He is probably going to fade during the season, the Vikes will fade, Chilly will be fired and Brett will be the cause of two coaches losing their jobs on two years.

I'm less intrigued by this latest continuance of the "miniseries" and more interested to see how Favre performs this year.

As for the Vikings going after Green Bay coaches and players, look at their roster. Adrian Peterson? nope. Chester Taylor? nope Bernard Berrian? nope. Bernard from the Bears, does that mean the Vikings are trying to emulate Bear "greatness?" inconclusive at best.

Andrew, with all due respect, Favre had a pretty compelling reason to be indecisive. He also conveyed a compelling reason to wait until Monday to sign the Vikings contract. He had just come off surgery and also realized he had a torn rotator cuff. You seem to omit those facts because they didn't fit your thesis.

No wonder that today you are a scribe.

This is something that lot of people just never knew...

From the article

"a good guy but troubled by having to make decisions without a clear, apparent choice."

"He would much rather have someone else, through his or her actions or words, make the decision for him."

"He retired a year ago because he wanted the Packers to court, woo and recruit him to play another year, as they had in the past. But he didn’t get that affection from the team he felt he had put into the national consciousness.""

I would think that the folks over at http://www.officialbrettfavre.com/favre_forum/ read this with out knowing it came from Andrew they would have a fit and call it non sense,or that the author is crazy....

But since it comes from Andrew we now are getting a REAL look inside the workings of Brett..

I don't think anyone can deny that if he could just play on Sundays he would still be a Packer..

I think that was the issue in GB...They wanted the entre team to be there for everything...They NEEDED Brett there..

Guys from the jets said it last year, if he was going to be there for the otas and min camps they would welcome him but he needed to be there with everyone else..

This is not like baseball where you can practically walk in after taking a whole off season off and pitch a no hitter..

And if Brett really felt he needed to be coddled....( I think that would be a fair assessment) people that run his official message board mentioned that Ted just had to say Brett we want you back, and Brett would been back..

If you ask me that's pretty sad...Yes it is nice to be wanted and needed,but to not return because Ted didn't do that, is pretty sad...

Fine, incisive writing (and scoop-lets), Andrew.

BUT please tell me: What changed in the three weeks since Favre exclaimed that he "did not have the mental or physical ability to last for 16 games and beyond" (paraphrase of his words)?

He discovered and drank from the Fountain of Youth in his dreams after retiring three weeks ago?

Andrew...terrific insight. One thing re Favre I never understood was WHY he was so insecure during the off seasons which he just can not handle the past 5 seasons. Here he has two yrs left on his contract for $25mil and he NEEDS to be begged to come back after leading the team to OT in NFC Champ Game vs SB Champs?! Man, I thought for sure he'd be chomping at the bit to get back in '08 and win it all. But that insecurity is his "devil" for sure.

Wow. It's either Packer fans, ex-Packer employees or butt kissers commenting on Favre. Andrew you are intelligent, you know your point of view is biased. Every person commenting on Brett Favre would give their almost anything to be in his position! Brett did what it takes to be successful and has earned the right to do what he is doing. Stop being envious and go worked hard to get what you want. Then you won't have a need to tear another person down.

I think Packer Pete had it correct.

The Sherman years really hurt Favre as he did not have the true coaching and was allowed to skip OTA's and isolate himself from the team. MM's approach did not sit well with Favre but the resuts on the field showed the value of a coach - quarterback relationship. I do not see him getting that in Minn.

As a longtime Packerfan, I for one am happy to see other teams picking up GB's castoffs. I remember the days of acquiring John Hadl, Mark Wilson, Mark Clayton, Raymont Harris, Reggie Cobb, Keith Millard and others with hope that there was still something left in the tank. The results were always disapointing. Watching Favre picked up by the Jets and Vikings, Green signed by Houston, and even Jarret Bush pursued by other teams tells me that GB's personel department must be strong.

Nice writing Andrew.

Well written, Andrew. Thanks.
Brett better make sure he is 100% committed (actually, he needs to be COMMITTED), because if he lets his guard down, plenty of guys from each of the teams in the NFC North would like nothing better than to put this Diva out of his misery and make the final playing decision for him.

Andrew - you are wrong.

The Viking have only signed two former Packers, before signing Favre. Sharper and Longwell

Sharper was signed in 2005 - with Tice and committee running the team.
Longwell was singed in 2006 - first year with Childress and Speilman.

Plus both players have done well - Sharper - 2 Pro Bowls and Longwell - very consistent.

You Packer fans ego's are larger then Favre's.

The Vikings don't sit and wait for what Packers might be cut, so they can quickly sign them.

I believe Ted Thompson and Coach McCarthy have done a great job in Green Bay. From the moment Thompson arrived on the scene, he was preparing the team for the day Brett would no longer be there. That day arrived last year and the Packers were ready. I expect no long time march through the wilderness like the team suffered when Coach Lombardi left and Bart Starr retired. The Packers are a strong deep young team -- with a quality qb at the helm.

I'm a Packers stockholder and could not be prouder of my team.

I wish Brett well (except twice this year).

And thanks, Andrew, for well constructed insightful commentary.

Randal,

I think you forget about their attempts to sign Aaron Kampman as a restricted free agent (2005). If I recall correctly they did sign him, but the Packers matched.

Robert Ferguson also played for the Vikings after being released by the Packers (2007).

I read OBF and fail to see anything here that a fan of Favre doesn't already know. Brandt didn't say anything against the man; but there are plenty of posters choosing to misconstrue his words and read what they want to read into his comments.

Did Brandt say Favre is a diva? What a joke!

Favre has carried teams - or tried do. Hasn't always gone well, but he kept coming back, and findng ways to win, despite mediocre talent, financial instabilty and coaching/management turmoil. Favre earned my respect, for what he did on and off the field, while playing QB for my favorite team for 16 years, during which he had 1 losing season. ONE. His predecessor has already matched that record.

Is anyone surprised that such a high achiever, who showed up in good times and bad, sought approval and positive reinforcement from his superiors? Or that, when he sensed that he was being tolerated rather than encouraged to return because Thompson wanted his own guy in there - decided that it was time to go? Favre's problem was that while he and Thompson were done with each other, he still loved the game. And when football clearly wasn't done with him, Thompson traded him to a lousy team in a different division rather than taking the high road and just releasing him.

I appreciate Andrew's pieces for the fact that they remind us that even great athletes are human beings with needs, insecurities, feelings and foibles. To read anything more damning into his comments is petty and ridiculous.

I am a big Vikings Fan. I have mixed feelings about the Favre signing. I don't know if it will work or not. Neither do any of you. I can see why Packer Fans are annoyed. I certainly would be if I were a Packer fan. What kills me is that you Packer Folk ( This includes you Andrew) truly believe your football orginization is so superior that the Vikings just lay in wait to pick up your scraps. They have signed many Free Agents that have helped load this roster with talent. Antoine Winfield, Shincoe, Ben Leber, Pat Williams, Hutch, Madieu Williams, Bobby Wade It isnt about about singing ex packers its about filling your roster. i wish we would have gotten Kampman when they signed him to an offer sheet, not becasue he is a Packer but becuase he is an excellent football player. Packer Fans, please get over yourself. I think this could be a very entertaining season. Good Luck to all, even you Packer fans

fan4life; McCarthy and Thompson were hesitant to allow Favre to return in 2008 because they knew in the preaseason that Favre HAD NOT DONE THE WORK to be in shape and to meld with the team in OTAs and minicamps, as Favre had done in 2007. Additionally, McCarthy iterated several times that in his numerous discussions with Favre prior to training camp that Favre never promised 100% commitment for the required grind work, such as film study, during the season. Mike Sherman was willing to give Favre free rein and Brett produced some of his sloppiest seasons. Childress also appears quite willing to let Favre run the show. History shows that's not the way to get Favre's best effort.

Thompson and McCarthy didn't kick Favre out to go with Thompson's guy. As i noted in an earlier post, after Favre's retirement announcement in early March 2008, TT and MM stayed in contact with Favre and were set to announce Favre's return in late March until Favre decided a second time that month to stay retired, rather than do the summer and training camp grind. At that point, MM and TT went to Plan B, Rodgers, rather than bank on an aging, out of shape QB for the season. Note how well that turned out for the Jets when Favre faded badly down the stretch.

McCarthy and Thompson have high standards, including off season work. Favre failed to meet those standards and he's gone.

fan4life

What I am trying to get at is on that site no matter what Brett can do no one, it is all Ted and Mike fault

Andrew saying Brett just wanted the Packers to woo and court him, if that really a true picture of Brett, then that is pretty sad... IMO

I do know they told him after season ended they wanted him back..One report stated that MM was going to make the work load LESS for him, and the pilot man never ONCE denied that but was fast to deny other things HE says were lies.

To me that sounded like the Packers did want him but were not willing to let him skip any important things.

But again it is all Teds fault

BTW how is Al Harris and Driver doing on their new teams?

You know, people on OBF practically guaranteed that both would be gone this year.

They really know their stuff ;)

Why not just insult Brett's mother while your at it...

HGH does wonders. Why do you think he has had to have his own private locker room area for the last 10 years? Barry, can you hear me? HGH can only do so much. It will all end. Very badly. I don't want to see it. It will be an ugly, sickening scene. Joe Theismann, can you hear me? Dumbass. This is not baseball, idiot.

Brett Favre is a manipulator and a compulsive liar. Anyone with half a brain can look at the chain of events starting last summer and come to realize that Brett has been in bed with the Vikings brass since before informing McCarthy and Thompson he wanted to play again. He showed up at the Packers training camp to force his trade. He had ZERO intention of playing for Green Bay again. MM and TT knew this. Unfortunately for them, they acted as true professionals by respectfully decling to comment, even though the mainstream media was portraying them as villains. Every move Favre has made has been a calculated effort to end up playing for a coach that probably refers to Favre as 'sir'. Too bad there are still fools out there that are completely blinded to his transparency. Favre is a baby, a diva, a compulsive liar all tied into one.

I can only wonder if Chilly will have the gonies to bench Favre if he tanks like so many of us thinks he will. I can't believe that after courting him so hard Chilly would be able to do it. He lives or dies with Favre.

When I take a good hard look at the Vikings organization I see a front office that has hit big on a couple first round draft choices and in free agency, yet they have an inability to develop their own mid to late rounders, which is the meat and potatoes of any organization. This is a reflection of poor coaching. All of their players are either developed in college or as members of other NFL teams. The matter in which Childress has handled the acquisition of the grey haired baby has been downright embarrassing. I'm fairly confident once the silver diva fades this season it will be his last season and Childress will be interviewing for positional coaching jobs.

You were Packer management. very bias!

Surprise ! Surprise !

Andrew B. provides a passive thoughtful look at BF's behavior.
Most would call it 'just another free pass' for the 'great one'.

You need to try a hard-hitting reality piece instead of this fluff.

The Favre critics continue to employ DOUBLE STANDARDS in their white-hot, sometimes hateful rhetoric.

--No other NFL player must hire a personal trainer every off season in order to be deemed fit to play the following season, EXCEPT for Favre.

--No other NFL player must submit to pre-training camp inquisition about his level of commitment to play, EXCEPT for Favre.

--No other veteran NFL player excused from OTA events must come to them anyway, EXCEPT for Favre.

--No other veteran NFL player offered a $12 million dollar contract by a rival team must forego the deal in order to not be labeled a traitor, EXCEPT for Favre.

DOUBLE STANDARDS make these Favre haters/Thompson devotees sound DOUBLY STUPID.

A realistic statistacl production for Favre this year would be 18-20 TDs, and 18-20 INTs.

Thats what 12 mil gets you.

Big John:

If there is a 50/50 chance that you might play for a team, then you prepare for that eventuality.
He has every other year so why not now? All he did this year was throw to the high school kids again. They were making him run windsprints the other day for Pete's sake. Michael Vick who had no reason to expect his reinstatement, came to camp in reasonable shape.

Drop the inquisition nonsense. Favre has brought on all the negativity himself. The double standard is yours. Favre is at Minnesota so let the chips fall where they may. The only regret for having him in the division is that we have to constantly hear from apologists like you who ignore reality

Favre will have some good days and some not so good days this year. If he leads the Vikings to the playoffs, he will have earned applause. However, if his play falls off after 10 games like it has in recent years, then guys like you better be the first to admit it or have no credibility.

When he said that "True Packer fans would understand why he was in Minnesota", it was obvious he just doesn't understand life beyond his bubble.

Big John: Get real. Favre hired a personal trainer in 2007 to get in the best shape he could because he was ready to play football in 2007. In 2008, he announced his retirement and sat on his can all summer. The Packers knew he hadn't worked out, hadn't committed himself to playing in 2008. The issue isn't that he needed a personal trainer: the issue is that he didn't do ANY offseason training of note.

As for his level of commitment to play, wouldn't you question a guy who, four or five years in a row, ended each season by saying he didn't know if his heart was into the game enough to endure the Monday through Saturday grind? If you were the boss, like McCarthy, wouldn't you seek a commitment from a guy who told you - twice - that he had retired, and who didn't show any offseason commitment to the team such as private workouts or attendance at team OTAs or minicamps? If you wouldn't question a player like that, especially the leader of your team, you'd be a fool.

Favre wasn't excused from OTAs in 2008 because HE WAS RETIRED. Had he committed to playing, McCarthy likely would have set a schedule with Favre as to which OTAs he needed to attend.

Well, Big John, you can switch your rose-colored Favre glasses for purple ones now. I don't care that Favre is playing for someone else. Had he returned to the Jets for a second season, I'd wish him well. Now that he's signed with our top rival, I hope he plays poorly. Nothing against Favre: purple makes me see red.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't MM say to Brett we are willing to lighten your work load if you decide to come back?

LTF - Lighten his work load meant schedule practices to split the load. McCarthy also asked Favre if he was 100% committed to all the night film study and analyzation he had done in the past. He didn't give him a positive answer. Even if he lied and told McCarthy "I'm completely 100% invested" he would have played last year for the Packers.

Now Childress says that Favre is 100% ready to go. How? Seventeen years in the league buy you a certain awareness but at 40 years old, if you have not trained your legs and lungs as well as your arm, there is no way to be in top form. He might get there in a month but he will also be relying an awful lot on his wits until then.

The most telling RECENT whopper by #4 was at the press conf in MN.
#4 claimed 'Chilly' took a shot on a random follow up phone call the day before (monday).

This is a transparent lie.
First Jay Glazer was in Mankato over the preceding weekend and the 'buzz' was #4 is coming - done deal.
2nd - the contract had to sent to NYC for league review on that same Monday - without already knowing #4 would sign? Um, no.
3rd - Chilly was clearly uncomfortable when the follow up questions at the presser including 'Why did decide to try #4 again on Monday?' - Coach Klink had trouble sticking to the lie.

But why lie in the first place?
Because he could? #4 lies easily and well. I have no idea why, but it seems a big part of who he is.
Paul Hornung (who has called #4 the greatest Packer player ever) told a story about when #4 supposedly gave up drinking after his Vicodin rehab. Hornung & #4 played golf all morning and drank more than a few beers during the game. Back at the clubhouse with the press, #4 stated withoput blinking that he had not had a drink in months.

Why? Guys like me made excuses and revered #4 for 16 years. He could have admitted almost anything and we would have given him a pass. There is no need to lie or play school girl games
- like the tampering the biQueens did last season.