With the draft looming this weekend, the better organizations will probably demonstrate why they are highly ranked, and the middle and bottom tier franchises will leave their fans and commentators grasping for the hope of improvement. Robert Boland
The Best
With the draft looming this weekend, the better organizations will probably demonstrate why they are highly ranked, and the middle and bottom tier franchises will leave their fans and commentators grasping for the hope of improvement. While nothing offers the chance for a new start for football fans like the draft, no other event so publicly exposes the organizational short comings of franchises either.
So with draft day in mind, we conclude our look at the best owners and organizations in the NFL. Last year’s playoff teams were scattered throughout the ranks of the middle and bottom tier franchises, indicating that won-loss record was only one of several important criteria in rating owner and organizational success. But in the top tier, sustained success on the field becomes a key factor in differentiating these organizations. So while winning is far from the only thing, to paraphrase the great Vince Lombardi, it is, in a sense, everything to be at the top level.
The Top Tier
Pittsburgh Steelers: Dan Rooney & Art Rooney II No. 1
The Lombardi Trophy resides in Pittsburgh -- and it has more times in the Super Bowl era than anywhere else -- in spite of market size, income disparities and all other limitations. In running down the hallmarks of enlightened ownership while looking at the Rooneys, I kept using the word “check.” “Connects past, present and future,” check… “manages for the long term,” check…”knows the economics of the sport,” double check.
In short, despite a hundred possible excuses, the Steelers for the better part of the last 40 years have been one of the best-owned and best-run franchises in all of sports. Contrast them with their baseball neighbors the Pirates. And over that same period, Dan Rooney has emerged as the most important owner in the NFL. As far as knowing the economics of his sport, he, along with the commissioners, has been the chief proponent for keeping the fragile revenue sharing agreement together. His appointment as Ambassador to Ireland may actually be a detriment to the league because it means one of its most respected and calming voices will be serving his country instead of the interests of football fans.
To belong in the top tier, an owner and an organization must also have accounted for some innovation, and the Steelers have two that should inform other franchises. First, they have established a plan of coaching stability. It’s standard Rooney practice, as Joe Bach and Walt Kiesling were loyally allowed to coach the Steelers during less than stellar times before revenue sharing and television money made Pittsburgh viable. Since the hiring of Chuck Noll in 1969, the Steelers have had three head coaches in 40 years and 30 winning seasons, and each coach has rewarded the Rooneys and the fans with Super Bowl victories.
Do the Rooney’s choose better? Maybe, but they unquestionably support their coach better. The Rooneys seem to remember what most other owners forget, that a coach who can win 12 games is a coach who can win 12 games, even though he might occasionally go 6-10. Merely having head coach stability in a league that doesn’t ensures that players can’t just wait out a coach, unless they plan on being George Blanda, and that the coach has a clear mandate to do his job.
Which brings us to the second major innovation of the Rooney organization -- having a consistent approach to scouting, drafting, evaluation and free agency. The Steelers don’t draft to find immediate starters beyond the first round, they look for internal replacements for players who may be lost to free agency in a season or two. This gives the Steelers the tremendous luxury to replace players from within their existing system for much less money and to not be hamstrung by losses in free agency. It also lets them use the later rounds of the draft more effectively than other teams as it lets them look for players who fit what the Steelers do (3-4 DLs and LBs, run blocking OLs and FBs) rather than drafting solely off whether that player has general potential.
Finally, the Rooneys, despite some public protestations bubbling up last summer, have seemingly been proactive in shaping a compromise to allow Dan to buy out the other heirs of Art Rooney Sr. and consolidate control of the Steelers, managing any inheritance tax liability issues and ensuring that the best-run franchise in the NFL stays in the family.
New York Giants: John Mara & Steven Tisch No. 2
It may be appropriate that as we move into an era of labor uncertainty in the NFL that John Mara has emerged as a force among owners. While the Mara and Tisch families share ownership of the Giants in what was the first and is still the most unique inheritance tax management deal in league history -- and they do it easily and without the intrusion of ego or ripple of conflict -- the football side of the Giants is unquestionably John Mara’s province, and this may be his moment.
The son and nephew of the two old-guard owners, who forged the first revenue-sharing agreement, Mara has the Giants organization functioning at a high level, and he would seem to have the ability to maintain it. Even his most controversial choices, like hiring and keeping Tom Coughlin as head coach and building a new stadium with the Jets as partners, have been or appear ready to reward with success. There are longtime fans priced out by a higher than expected personal seat license who may argue with such a high placing.
But it’s fear of open competition with the Giants only a year off a Super Bowl win, in a new stadium, as the dominant team, in the league’s largest and wealthiest market that chastens the other owners who believe they can become the George Steinbrenner of their sport. Dan Rooney may have the influence and respect to keep the owners together and get them to consider maintaining labor peace, but it’s Mara who may have the clout to ultimately convince them to maintain the system that has served them well.
Like the Steelers, the Giants have a unified approach to scouting, drafting and player replacement. And perhaps more than any other organization, especially one in the media capital of the world, the Giants are not managed by the wind generated by talk radio or newspaper columns. They are also a symmetrical organization with equal focus on football, business and league governance.
It may not just be purely coincidence that the Rooney and Mara families have intermarried in the current generation.
New England Patriots: Robert Kraft No. 3
While the twin shadows of Bill Belichick and Tom Brady loom large in Foxboro, it is difficult to argue with the overall success of Robert Kraft in taking what had always been a cash-poor franchise, on the verge of moving to St. Louis or to a stadium built in Hartford, and turning it into one of the league’s true bellwether franchises.
Much credit should go to Kraft, who despite an unseemly feud with Bill Parcells and a lack of patience in Pete Carroll, for being visionary enough to recognize the potential of Belichick. Having Parcells, Carroll and Belichick as consecutive head coaches would seem to indicate something good, too. It is Belichick’s development of a balanced roster approach to team construction -- building around positions less influenced by salary inflation caused by free agency (ILB, S, OG, TE and FB) -- that is the true revolution in cap management that marks New England’s rise.
But it has been in building Gillette Stadium privately and running it as well as he has that is Kraft’s greatest accomplishment. He also emerges as a key swing force in ownership as he is a new guard owner who is highly leveraged but can be brought back to reasonable league-oriented thinking when it is meritorious.
The Next Best
Philadelphia Eagles: Jeffrey Lurie No. 4
These are the good old days for Eagles fans. And while the uniforms don’t hold a candle to the old Bednarik-issue green and silver ones, the Eagles organization has been one of the most innovative in the NFL for a decade. It is also a decade that has seen Philadelphia build a successful new stadium and training complex and show incredible organizational discipline behind president Joe Banner, GM Tom Heckert and coach Andy Reid.
Two innovations the Eagles can take credit for are the practice of successfully extending young players’ contracts before they’re eligible for free agency, establishing low cost roster stability, and feasting off the free-agent mistakes other teams have made in overvaluing players, especially Eagles players. While the Eagles have no championships to show for Lurie’s tenure, they have an enviable run and organizational stability.
Baltimore Ravens: Steve Bisciotti No. 5
Here’s the one you probably weren’t expecting. But while Bisciotti is a curious owner, lacking either an Ivy League pedigree like Kraft or an NFL upbringing like Rooney or Mara, it’s tough to argue with what he’s accomplished and skillfully maintained in Baltimore.
The organization is considered one of the strongest in football under GM Ozzie Newsome, and when lists of candidates for vacancies in other organizations are named publicly, folks from Baltimore usually lead the list. Defensive coordinators Marvin Lewis, Jack Del Rio, Mike Nolan and Rex Ryan are or have been head coaches. Phil Savage and George Kokinis have become GMs. Clearly, the Ravens’ organization has quietly been doing something right under Bisciotti, including recognizing and plucking head coach John Harbaugh from the Eagles, with whom he had been mostly a special teams coach.
Green Bay Packers: Shareholders/Mark Murphy, President & CEO No. 6
Perhaps one of the most visionary theorists on the concept of ownership in professional sports is Clark Griffith, the son of former Minnesota Twins owner Calvin Griffith. Griffith, who went to law school himself in his 30s to better understand how labor law was shaping sports, has eloquently stated that one of the problems with a variety of upstart sports leagues (WUSA, MLS, WNBA) trying to use single entity theory to get around the antitrust laws is that the league is deprived the energy and entrepreneurial spirit that ownership provides to a franchise. Griffith is absolutely correct.
So, after spending the last paragraph (and last two weeks) talking about how important ownership is and what happens when there’s a void in ownership, how can I pick a team that has no active ownership among the top six in the NFL? The Packers are not the absence of ownership. Their owners are present and accounted for and they are big factors in the success of this historic team. But the Packers theoretically also represent the success of focused management. The executive committee picks a president whose job it is to run the franchise. This ensures that the Packers are always run by an executive engaged in, and in charge of, their operations as opposed to an owner who might be in the south of France.
Sure, the head coach and GM in this structure might get too much power, and the team can rise and fall on the talents of several individuals -- and this corporate structure can make for slow change. Still, this system has served Green Bay well, and the Packers’ very survival in the smallest market for any major professional sports franchise in the U.S. is nothing short of a miracle created by this structure.
Possibly Sliding Downward
Dallas Cowboys: Jerry Jones No. 7
When Jerry Jones starts to slide, it could be straight from the top to the bottom, and that’s emblematic of how this former oilman does everything in a big way. His current game of big casino is betting everything on the most expensive stadium in human history, at least the most expensive stadium a team not based in New York has ever tried to open. Will it be nice? Unquestionably! But it is also potentially, given the lack of a naming rights sponsor, a bet that not even an ultimate gambler like Jones can cover. The new stadium is the kind of temple of ego they used to make black-and-white movies about. It encloses 10 acres. To give you a point of comparison, the Ballpark in Arlington, where the Texas Rangers play, is built on a 10-acre site. So the image of an elderly Jones wandering the empty corridors of his “stately pleasure dome,” like Orson Welles in “Citizen Kane,” saying “Aikman,” comes to mind. But if Jones can cover, the Dallas Star will shine more brightly than ever.
Still, Dallas remains a franchise that players want to play for and coaches want to coach. For better or worse, Jones has taught the other owners how to make money, and he has probably been the single biggest force in increasing all franchise values since joining the league.
His accomplishments come with some scars, although most of them seem to be related to his failings as a GM, and sometimes erstwhile head coach, rather than as an owner.
Denver Broncos: Pat Bowlen No. 8
The financial and on-field success of the Broncos marks Bowlen as a force to be reckoned with in the league. He has built a franchise that has historically far out-performed its market size.
Two Super Bowls, a state-of-the-art stadium and sustained success have set high expectations, and now the Broncos have come to a crossroads. Having fairly recently replaced their head coach, general manager and quarterback with somewhat unproven replacements, the recent past requires that Bowlen and the Broncos be ranked above the middle of the pack, although this placement is hardly secure going forward. So the pressure is on.
The Rest
9. Indianapolis Colts: Jim Irsay
10. Tampa Bay: Malcolm Glazer & Son
11. Kansas City Chiefs: Clark Hunt
12. Minnesota Vikings: Zygmunt Wilf
13. Seattle Seahawks: Paul Allen
14. Tennessee Titans: Bud Adams
15. Houston Texans: Bob McNair
16. New York Jets: Woody Johnson
17. San Diego Chargers: Alex Spanos & Dean Spanos
18. Carolina Panthers: Jerry Richardson
19. Jacksonville Jaguars: Wayne Weaver
20. Buffalo Bills: Ralph Wilson
21. St. Louis Rams: Chip Rosenbloom
22. Chicago Bears: Virginia McCaskey & Michael McCaskey
23. Atlanta Falcons: Arthur Blank
24. Washington Redskins: Daniel Snyder
25. New Orleans Saints: Tom Benson
26. Cleveland Browns: Randy Lerner
27. San Francisco 49ers: Denise DeBartolo York & John York
28. Arizona Cardinals: William Bidwill & Michael Bidwill
29. Detroit Lions: William Clay Ford, Sr.
30. Oakland Raiders: Al Davis
31. Cincinnati Bengals: Mike Brown
Incomplete: Miami Dolphins: Steve Ross
does this site employ copy editors? who is ben biscotti? its steve biscotti.
I really enjoyed the series. Thanks, Robert.
Is GB really a small market team or does it encompass the state?
It encompasses the state, but even then, it's still a small market.
Bob Kraft bought the Patriots for just over $170,000 in 1993 and turned it into a billion dollar franchise in a little over ten years. He's been to FIVE Superbowls in that time and his team has the most wins of any franchise in the league since he took over. Although he inherited Parcells, he's worked with two NFL HOF coaches and one NCAA HOF coach. He's built a beautiful new stadium and added to it with the Hall at Patriot Place which itself could redefine the stadium experience in the NFL going forward.
I can't dispute that the Rooneys are the number one choice because of their longevity, but how in the world can you put the Mara/Tisch owners ahead of Kraft? They work in the richest market in the league and have the benefit of sharing their most expensive cost -- their stadium -- with the Fredo to their Michael, the Jets. Meanwhile, Kraft works in a market a fraction of the size, makes more money (according to Forbes) and has more wins, both regular season and Superbowl.
I love your list and the fact that you've put as much thought into it as you have, but I think you should reconsider the top of your rankings.
STEVE Bisciotti
The Steelers have had a few decent seasons since the 70s. Before and after that they were a laughing stock.
The Giants have two decent years and suddenly they are number two?
The only thing that seemingly marks them better than the Patriots in your list is the fact that they have been around a long time. Yawn...
You need to make your list relevant for the present time and not all time.
With all due respect, the idea that Pat Bowlen looks up at anybody other than Pittsburgh and NE is hilarious (and as a body of work over the long haul, NE is arguable. Denver has never know the depths NE reached pre-Belichick). The guy has five Super Bowl appearances under two different regimes, managed to convince the fans to give up the best football venue on the planet so he could make more money, and never missed a beat when the Avalanche and Rockies started winning hearts across the region. Denver has been .500 over the last three years and you'd think we were Bengals fans by judging the collective demoralization of the fan base. That's packing a lunch and setting a standard of excellence. The only glaring problems with Pat Bowlen are geography and media market size, but he can never overcome either.
This guy can't even get the names right, much less the necessary economic analysis. I guess that's what you get when you staff a blog with a bunch of out-of-work NFL failures.
Good place for Bowlen. He has been a great owner for many years but I agree there is a lot of uncertainty when it comes to the Broncos going into the upcoming season.
Though I think McDaniels investing in a QB of the future this weekend might ease some of that uncertainty for the future.
Great article and a worthy topic, but I agree with Leigh 100%. It sounds like we're splitting hairs qu1bbling about the 2 versus 3, but there shouldn't be a question over the top two. The success of the Rooney family in the long- and short- term cannot be argued. In a bottom line business, they've won the most when it counted. But I can't see the Mara/Tisch families there unless you are only talking about longevity. In a relatively short 15 years, the Kraft family has pulled the Patriots from looking like the Lions to... well... the Patriots.
In addition to building the Foxboro-based empire without taxpayer money, his support in building the NFL to what it is today (from TV deals and sports licensing to working to continue labor piece and negotiations between large- and small-market teams) is undeniable.
That is Chris Mara not John.
BIG HANDLE, you don't need to visit this site if you don't like it. There are probably a billion other sites, that you can waste your comments on. While I will agree that I hate to see missed or incorrect minor details , I do appreciate the thought out analysis and I also keep in mind that this site is free and appreciate the time and effort spent by the people at NFP to give us great pieces like this one!
Kraft financed his stadium without public financing and without having to resort to personal seat licenses. He has also been instrumental in negotiating favorable television contracts for the league. Further, the Patriots were at the forefront of using the internet for marketing.
Kraft didn't inherit it - it wasn't handed to him. The naysayers said he overpaid at $170 million. Who was right? The finanial trurnaround he has accomplished in New England is certainly unprecedented in NFL history.
Thanks for the series Robert, it's been an enjoyable and informative one!
I know NFP are in the bag for Belichick, but really, the Patriots actually lost a first round draft pick for cheating in a manner that while some say "everybody does it" there's never been another story to emerge of anybody else doing it. That's what qualifies as a top 3 organization in this league, a team who's recent success has been completely tarnished by the fact that no one knows if they did it on the up and up?
This stats guy has a pretty good article on how the team's success and its team efficiencies simply do not line up during the period:
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2007/09/belichick-and-sign-stealing.html
This whole issue was quietly and quickly swept under the rug before it could become a Black Sox scandal, and the reasons are the same now as they were then: allegations of improperly won Championships destroys the league's credibility, and more importantly, what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas, namely 3 years of Super Bowl bets that would be called into question if the Patriots had to forfeit their ill-gotten titles.
Again, they were penalized ACTUALLY penalized with the loss of a first round draft pick last year - that's an organization that is the class of the NFL? Please.
Big Handle,
Although I agree with Jims comment, I did find your comment funny.
Is it me, or does Jeffrey Lurie remind anyone else of that white haired cook guy from those Chilis' commercials?
Franklin Hillside - While GB's market, as you say, encompasses the entire state and even then is still small...I respectfully disagree.
Just like you find Cubs, Cowboys, & Steeler fans all across the US, likewise you can find Packer fans. In my opinion, for NFL franchises, you'll find more Steeler & Packer fans outside their team's respective state than any other NFL team.
What is it about the post that's garbage? I'll admit, the comments about the Super Bowls, Las Vegas, and the website article using statistical analysis to show that the Patriots won a statistically unprecedented, wildly disproportionate amount of games given their actual team efficiencies - again, those claims are speculation based on circumstantial evidence. I'm drawing those conclusions based on the data available, but I can't say for certain that they are true, just that the evidence seems to indicate that they are likely.
But the Patriots were caught on video cheating, right? They were cited for this unprecedented offense with an unprecedented penalty, the loss of a first round draft pick, right? Even if you don't make simple assumptions I have, those facts speak for themselves and are uncontested as a matter of record, aren't they? Shouldn't that be factored into the discussion?
For the record, I am agreeing with Drew T. where he says "NE is arguable" not Nick's garbage post.
What is it about the post that's garbage? I'll admit, the comments about the Super Bowls, Las Vegas, and the website article using statistical analysis to show that the Patriots won a statistically unprecedented, wildly disproportionate amount of games given their actual team efficiencies - again, those claims are speculation based on circumstantial evidence. I'm drawing those conclusions based on the data available, but I can't say for certain that they are true, just that the evidence seems to indicate that they are likely.
But the Patriots were caught on video cheating, right? They were cited for this unprecedented offense with an unprecedented penalty, the loss of a first round draft pick, right? Even if you don't make the simple assumptions I have, those facts speak for themselves and are uncontested as a matter of record, aren't they? Shouldn't that be factored into the discussion?
Nick,
What exactly was swept under the rug? The whole thing was at the forefront of their entire 2007 season.
Furthermore, in what world do you think every team does things on the up and up? From teams holding prohibited full contact drills at mini-camps to just about every team in the league having had a player suspended for performance-enhancing drugs, no team does it all on the up-and-up.
Let's keep in mind that their violation was not even the video taping of signals, which every team does, but was for the location of the camera.
Well this part of the list renders the entire list totally without merit.
Packers should be #1 by a longshot.
Stellers are not the organization everyone thinks they are.
Oh, and Steeler fans - you do not travel better than everyone else like you think. Maybe 5th or 6th best.
Pittsburgh = Hayseed central, flyover country.
Nick there is ZERO evidence that the Patriots cheated to win one game, so stop your crying. No matter how much you cry it never going to change the fact that all 3 SB championships are legit. Your assumptions are flat out wrong and biased, so go pedal your garbage elsewhere.
Eric - depends on how you measure "market" but the entire population of WI is less than 5.4M, of which over 2M is the Milwaukee area, over 100 miles away. Milwaukee is a little smaller than the Denver Metro area; there is no other significant population center anywhere near GB.
Kevin - Pack shouldn't be #1 in this. Not with the way they botched the Favre transition as well as the Holmgren/Wolf transitions. Six is about right for the Pack but would've liked to see mention of renovating historic Lambeau instead of replacing it as well as how much of the renovations were focused towards improving fan experience.
Are you guys really STILL whining over the Patriots 'cheating'? REALLY? I'm a GIRL and I know that many people, including COACHES, cough Jimmy Johnson cough, have said that this goes on ALL THE TIME. It's part of the game. If you are really THAT ignorant that you HONESTLY believe the Patriots are classless and 'cheat' then you have no business talking about football.
And this coming from a COLTS fan.
Enjoyed the series but I'm afraid you fell prey to the on-field successes of the most recent years.
Steelers, Giants, Patriots & Ravens have won 7 out of the last 9 SBs. They are also all in your top 5 organizations.
Although a top org can ultimately lead to on-field success over the long haul, parity in the NFL makes even the most mismanaged org a player in the SB. The Cardinals are the prime example.
The Cowboys & Broncos are sliding ??? Based on their disappointment in 2008 ??
The Favre Fiasco has nothing to do with how GB ranks as an organization. If anything it has enhanced GB's stature as a team first organization.
Scott,
Good explanation. I still don't buy it that GB is small market, but I have never been there. Is the city of Milwaukee a Packer city i.e do most consider themselves cheeseheads? I mean yes GB is a small town in the literal sense, but the team seems to encompass a much larger area. If it didn't, then there would be no way there would be as many Packer fans across the nation unless the team engenders bandwagoners.
Nick, I think Michelle sums it up pretty well. My post disappeared so I am pasting it here again:
"I agree.. if you consider the body of work of a football organization over it's history, the Patriots would actually be ranked in the middle- it is one of the best organizations now, but the old Patriots were very much at the other end of the scale in the early days, what with drafting a player who was already deceased, and broadcasting over the public speakers, pleading with a former player to return to the team and participate in the game being played. The legendary strings of coach hiring is very forgettable and hit bottom with the incompetence of Clive Rush, who was so inept he found a way to electrocute himself with an ungrounded microphone at an introductory conference. And, Rod Rust won't be easily forgotten, he of the 1-15 fame.
"One has to think that true exorcism didn't happen until after the wild-card cincher in '85 where a great number of fans celebrated by tearing down the west goalpost and traveling south with it on Route One only to very nearly electrocute themselves when they tried to pass it under a power line. Many of them got a bad shock.
"Sullivan is the antithesis to Kraft, and the old Schafer/Sullivan stadium was the opposite of the state of art mini-town that Patriot Place is now. "
Robert --
Thanks for a great post that ties together all the aspects of franchise ownership - winning on the field, consistency, building/ maintaining fan support, and profitability. I think you're being a bit generous to Jerry Jones, though -- he took a franchise that the Murchisons spent years building and, arguably, has done little but find new ways of squeezing money from their brand. When the long-term interests of his team collide with his ego, his ego always wins. It's scary to think how many Super Bowls they would have won if Jimmy Johnson had stayed, or how much better they'd be right now if Parcells had been given full control of all football operations.
The interesting part of this is that the best franchises seem to be pretty easy to copy: come up with a long-term strategy, stick to the strategy, make changes to that core strategy only upon rigorous evaluation, and empower your people to support that strategy. But so few actually do. That's worth a column itself.
And Nick...
If half the energy that went into investigating Belichick had gone into finding a cure for cancer, we wouldn't have cancer.
I am an Eagles fan and growing up I envied Pittsburgh fans because their teams might not win every game, their players were the kind of guys you wanted on your team.
Critics of Steelers might have glossed over this fact: "Since the hiring of Chuck Noll in 1969, the Steelers have had three head coaches in 40 years and 30 winning seasons, and each coach has rewarded the Rooneys and the fans with Super Bowl victories."
^----ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Eric Green - It doesnt matter. Do the Bengals and the Browns pull from the same market? Are there Browns fans in Cincinati, or Bengals fans in Cleveland? Sure. What about Steeler fans and Eagles fans? Outside of their perspective cities...they pull all kinds of fans. I would think its pretty common for a Franchise to have fans all over the US (example..America's Team). But the term "Market" means advertising, big business, accomadations (which is relatively small in GB compared to most cities)
@Eric Green - Green Bay is one of the most popular franchises in the league. That doesn't change the fact that they play in a small market. The city of Green Bay has a little more than 100,000 residents. That means very small local television and radio revenue, which is one of the main reasons market size is important. The Giants and Jets, by contrast, play to an audience of over 8 million in New York City alone, much more if you factor in their other local markets -- New Jersey and the metro New York area.
The number of people outside Green Bay who follow the Packers is irrelevant because they don't contribute to locally generated revenue. Green Bay itself is a small market.
@WoodyG -- The Pats are the 3rd highest grossing team in terms of revenue behind Dallas and Washington. Regardless of on-field success, they should be top ranked because as a business, they're among the most profitable. When you combine the fact that they're the most successful team in the league since Kraft took over in '93, there's no question they should be at the top.
@Nick -- Are you seriously still complaining about Spygate? Your statistical analysis is absurd. By that metric, last year's team should have been dead last in their division considering the draft position of their QB, the number of sacks and the poor performance of their defense. Yet they went 11-5, the same record as the division winner. And I'm pretty sure the most scrutinized video department in the league wasn't cheating last season. So what's your point, really, other than sour grapes?
Nice link Nick, thanks for sharing.
We get it Pats fans - if I was a fan of a franchise that was a joke historically, then almost overnite became a crown jewel with 3 SB titles with a failed retread head coach, no less, ONLY to discover said franchise's success was built on corruption and systematic cheating that infested every level of the organization, I would be bitter too!
Eric - Most of WI, in terms of pro football fans, consider themselves cheeseheads but in terms of being able to directly support the team through attending games or purchasing gear at the Pro Shop, it's not even an option for most of us. The "metro area" of Green Bay (the city plus the surrounding areas, three counties in total) has around 300,000 people in total - for perspective, the Denver metro area has 2.8M, the Cleveland metro area has 2.25M, Jacksonville metro has 1.3M, Cincinnati has 2.1M, Buffalo has 1.1M, Pittsburgh metro has 2.4M.
That's what Robert is getting at with his ranking GB so high in the NFL. Over the years, they've managed to brand their product in such a way that 99% of their fans are outside of the team's immediate area. When you see a Packer game on TV, most of the people in the stands drove 2-3 hours to get to the game, some travel four or more. People make day trips across the state just to watch a training camp practice. The team also markets themselves throughout the state on TV, radio and in personal appearances and events. They also used to play certain games in Milwaukee and continue to have a season ticket package that originally was exclusive to the Milwaukee market. When the Packers need assistance, they don't go to local government, they go to the state. That's how they've managed to not just survive, but to thrive.
And yes, because they are used to projecting their brand outside their immediate area, they DO pick up a lot more bandwagon fans than most teams. You don't spend time in Wisconsin without coming into contact with the Packers in some way. I lived in upstate NY for two years, never had any contact with any of the three teams that reside there.
Michael,
Why would we be bitter? After we "got caught cheating", we go 27-5, with all five losses coming from a backup quarterback..
Gosh, I wish we had "gotten caught" earlier!
What a fancy notion- to think that you can build a franchise on stolen signs! Please.
So happy to see the Pack being the topic of discussion. Just to clarify a point, the NFL considers both GB and Milwaukee the Packers hometown (as evidenced by the NFL Network fiasco). Either way the population is very small and Leigh absolutely right about what it means to be a small market.
Scott- Great post about market sizes. I don't think people realize just how small Green Bay is unless they actually visit the area.
And as a previous post said, the Lambeau renovation was just great. I had never been to Lambeau pre-renovation, but they did a great job, and didn't have to incur the expenses of a brand new venue.
Scott M,
Your reply was actually the best and answered my question about Milwaukee. How many major corporations in Milwaukee support the Packers?
I just kind of see it like say the University of Georgia. Athens is a small town, but a large percentage of the fans are in Atlanta and drive to the games.
"Why would we be bitter? After we “got caught cheating”, we go 27-5, with all five losses coming from a backup quarterback.."
Nice math... Try 29-6 with one VERY BIG loss vs. the Giants... Hmmm... I wonder if Brady was a backup when he played in that game???
& I hear the same "...but everyone else is doing it..." rhetoric from OU & U$C fans. You should be ashamed of the fact that you got caught breaking the rules not proud of it...
That being said what Kraft has done in 16-17 years is remarkable. It just pales in comparison to what the Rooneys have done over the last 38-39 IMO...
Kudos to the rest of the Packer Nation for a job well done up to this point, Earl 'Curly' Lambeau would be proud. As for this whole 'Spy Gate' fiasco, New England got extremely lucky in coming out of the 'tuck rule game' with a 'W', and building off of that. They have been the most successful team in this decade, and no one can argue that. Furthermore, almost all teams have attempted to steal signals at some point in their existence, NE just got caught filming it. They paid a price, albeit a harsh one, and we have all moved on. By no means do I condone sign-stealing, but I also refuse to vilify the Patriots for it. One thing I will say with diehard conviction, and I know this is off-topic, but alas, I cannot resist, as it is a truth that we all know: Tom Brady is grossly overrated. He was an average QB, who caught a few breaks, and all-of-a-sudden, he has become one of the greatest signal-callers ever. Did anyone notice how that seemed to coincide with the additions of Randy Moss and Wes Welker at WR? See: Matt Cassell's success.
-Out.
What a joke, Pittsburg has owners that were running dog tracks connected to casinos and the NFL turns a blind eye. They started the steroid era in the NFL 70's. They get every call in any superbowl they are in. Like I said what a joke.
Eric Green (Bay?):
Harley Davidson, Miller-Coors, Johnsonville to name a few.
Bob - you are just joking that you think Tom Brady is overrated...right? He is without a doubt one of the greatest QB's ever and that is a fact. He won 2 of his 3 superbowls with Antwoin Smith as his RB. He won 3 SB before the additions of Moss and Welker, then when they got there he had the greatest season ever for a QB. As good as Cassel did last year it wasn't good enough to make the playoffs, so that theory doesn't hold water.
Lurie leads the new blood at this time.
Will Miami end up catching some of the same style magic Krafy cultured with Parcells? They are headed the right direction. Credit Parcells with picking in Sparano a no nonsense pro.
*Kraft*
The fact you point out three solid coaches indicates a precise form of evaluation in terms of what Kraft wants in coaches. That carries over throughout the organization.
Doesn't hurt to have trades like Harrison, Dillon, Moss and Welker occur.
Eric - that's sort of the thing, they target every corporation throughout the state, not just Milwaukee. Miller brewing is probably the largest corporate sponsor but their bread and butter is in the little stuff they do all over the state.
They provide assistance to a total of over 8000 charity organizations throughtout WI. In a typical year, players and coaches will make a total of over 500 special appearances to support various causes. They do scholarships and sponsor programs in the schools of over 200 school districts. They work with the National Guard and all the usual big charities. They recently started new Tailgate Tour where some of the guys hop on a bus and travel all over just to say hey to the fans and raise money for charities.
That's why it works.
We get it Nick, you don't like the Patriots..... I'm sure most people reading this hate one team or another, they just have perspective....
You neglected to say how the steelers shook down the taxpayers even after the voters soundly voted down public funding for the heinz field.Many people forget that rooney did not anounce the naming deal with heinz until after the stadium was built so he could keep the money.How many quality programs could not be funded because of this mans greed.Remember while this was takeing place Pittsburgh was bankrupt.
@Mike Ocherts -- The Patriots lost a Superbowl. Wow. Tough break. They've played in 4 this decade. It really is hard for Pats fans to get terribly broken-hearted about one loss, particularly when the owner before Kraft left the team with a 1-15 record.
REGARDLESS of the on-field record, the Pats are the third most profitable team in the league since Kraft took over and prior to Belichick, they had an NFL HOF coach and an NCAA HOF coach. And since Kraft purchased the team, including the years with Parcells and Carroll, the team has the most wins of any team in the league.
The organization is well run and that's what this list is pointing out. I think it's unfortunate that most posters on this board are able to have a rational discussion about the merits or shortcomings of the rankings, but Patriots haters feel the need to denigrate based purely on resentment.
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Apr 22, 2009
09:33 AM
Jets # 16? You cannot be serious!