It has snow and cold, but it’s still a nice place to play. Andrew Brandt
Ray Rice of the Ravens made some harsh but not startling comments about the host city after his team lost to the Packers Monday night, saying, "To be honest with you, it was just Lambeau Field. I didn't see anything special. They put us in the middle of nowhere and it's not a real exciting place. Everything about this place is terrible, to be honest with you."
First, let’s get this out of the way: Never trust anyone who says “to be honest with you” twice in the same paragraph. Now, let’s deal with the rest of his comments.
Cold weather, warm people
As someone who was a resident of the Green Bay area and an employee of the Packers for nine years, that comment was unfair but certainly not surprising for an opposing player, especially one bitten by the cold and a loss. Having represented the league’s smallest and coldest market, I know the challenges in attracting players, although once there, most embrace the football-frenzied atmosphere.
When the Packers’ general manager at the time, Ron Wolf, called me 10 years ago and asked if I wanted to “switch sides” and move from representing players to joining the team, I was flattered but had the same reaction to Green Bay as everyone does: “Brrrr!”
I looked up the area up on a map and figured out where this slice of the country was located. I flew into tiny Austin Straubel Airport and noticed a couple of things right away: snow-covered ground as far as the eye could see and half the populace wearing Packers gear.
I looked Ron in the eye and asked, “Please don’t take offense at this question, but do I have to move here to do this job?” He didn’t blink an eye and said, “No offense taken, and yes.” Two weeks later, I was working for him and living in the Best Western Midway Motel across the parking lot from the stadium, with new coach Ray Rhodes in the room on one side of me and eventually Donald Driver on the other.
Coming from the East Coast, Green Bay took some getting used to, but it became a nice haven to live and raise children. Life is full of pros and cons, and there were certainly both living in Green Bay. I heard many players and team executives ask, "How do you live there?” -- incredulous about a place without curb appeal and, of course, the weather (as I write this, the area is dealing with an intense blizzard).
As the hundreds of coaches, players and other employees of the team will attest, the area is truly a unique place, where time stands still from the Lombardi era. There is probably no professional sports community that wraps itself around its team like Green Bay, and an element of Midwestern kindness permeates the area. There are truly no fans like Packer fans, as I still know from the many emails I receive from them daily.
Of the countless stories to illustrate this, here’s one: Coming home after a game with the Giants one night, I noticed my neighbors hosting several people wearing Giants gear. My neighbors met them at the game and invited them over to have dinner and drinks. Although the Giants fans couldn’t believe the hospitality, it happened all the time.
The hard sell
Recruiting players who had other options was a challenge. When free agency came to the NFL in 1993, the fear was that a place like Green Bay would never sign a marquee player because of the more geographically desirable options. Of course, that very year, the biggest trophy of all in free agency, Reggie White, joined the Packers (White loved the tradition of the franchise and didn’t mind the fact the Packers were paying more than anyone else).
While other teams treat players to first-class travel, fancy steakhouses and five-star hotels, Packers recruits wedge themselves into regional aircraft – no first-class seats – from Detroit, Chicago or Milwaukee; dine at the Prime Quarter, cooking their own steaks; and stay at the Airport Radisson attached to a small casino. If a player cared about amenities, he was not signing with the Packers. But if he was about football, football and more football, the Packers were the best option.
I will never forget the recruitment of Charles Woodson in 2006. We were coming off a disastrous 4-12 season, Brett Favre had not decided whether he was going to play again and Woodson’s visit coincided with a nasty snowstorm in bitter cold. Convincing him to join the Packers was a tall order.
Even though we were the highest bidders for his services, I felt like the Green Bay Chamber of Commerce trying to convince Charles and his agent, Carl Poston, that it would be a perfect fit for the former Michigan star. When we finally got to the point where the biggest question Charles had was whether we wore black cleats, I knew we had a shot. He was all about football. It took a while, but Charles has grown to enjoy the area and its uncomplicated life, staying pretty much to his close circle of friends and taking his piano lessons.
Green Bay is certainly not for everyone. We had a few players who wanted out and were not going to be placated even by a new contract. Mike McKenzie and Javon Walker were two who never gave specific reasons but were very clear in wanting to leave, regardless of what we did contractually. Those players, however, were more the exception than the rule. Many who left for one reason or another told me how much they missed the place.
Rice gets nice
I now live on the East Coast, where I’m from, and am not far from Ray Rice. There are some things I miss about Green Bay and some I do not, but Rice’s remarks after spending a day in Titletown were certainly off base.
Rice, as per the Damage Control 101 handbook, has apologized for his remarks (through Twitter, no less). It was not in his best interests to leave those comments out there.
Who knows, maybe even Rice will hope the Packers are an option if and when he hits the free-agent market in a couple years. “To be honest with you….”
Follow me on Twitter: adbrandt
Ray did definately miss the point.
Green Bay is a college type town with a professional sports franchise. That's what sets it apart from 99% of other teams. It has never been billed as more or less. I doubt he got tours of the stadium, or had history lessons in his two days there. I doubt he even got out to travel the cities or eat. Assuming his team stayed in the Appleton motel since all other GB motels are booked, I don't doubt it was a lousy night. Then to drive to the stadium, get dressed, and get his butt kicked didn't help. It's not suprising a young, inexperienced kid who's frustrated will probably spout off by lashing back and the team that just beat him. Someone with a little more experience might appreciate most of the things that set the Packers apart. Didn't many of the Chargers players rave about the hospitality two years ago?
But Ray, with production like that, you are welcomed any time!
Hello Andrew,
As always, good inside information. I want to say that being an outsider here has been very good. There might be warmer weather somewhere else....but there is warmer people up here. During our first month in Green Bay, my wife was 5 months pregnant and took the car for a wash. While she was trying to put the coins, she realized there was not enough change in her purse. By then the line was 3 cars behind and she did not know how to back up. She wanted to ask the guy behind her for dollar bills out of a $5. To her surprise, the gentleman placed the additional 2 dollars on the slot without accepting any money. My wife was embarrassed and wanted to give at least the $5 instead. This gentleman just replied: "Welcome to Green Bay". This community has been wonderful to us, and now has been 8 years and counting.....
Well, I'll attest to the weather. 16 inches in the driveway this morning and snowing still. High of 9 expected tomorrow. Thankfully, this storm arrived a day after the Baltimore game or Ray Rice might still be sitting in a Green Bay hotel room, enjoying Titletown's charms.
I think the local Packer fans take a measure of pride in showing hospitality to visiting players and fans. Certainly, we'll give a hearty boo when the opponent is on the field, but off the field, we welcome everyone. I was fortunate to attend the 1996 NFC Championship when the Packers beat the Panthers. High temp that day was 3 degrees. Many Panther fans attended, and most had no idea the difference between 3 degrees and 30 degrees, arriving dressed in wind breakers and tennis shoes. In our stadium section, we loaned gloves and shoved heat pads into the shoes of Panther fans. I thought nothing more of it until midweek, when the local Press Gazette started publishing a few letters each day from Panther fans who had returned home and taken the time to write kind words about their visits.
Pride in the Packers extends beyond the stadium walls. The northeast Wisconsin area is known locally as Packerland. It may sound goofy to an outsider, but we consider ourselves part of the Packers; we are Packers; it is our team. I own a part; I have voting rights. We expect the coaches and players to present themselves in a certain manner as we expect ourselves and fellow fans to present themselves hospitably to visiting guests. This is a football town 365 days a year. The players who truly love the game do appreciate this place.
So we welcome fans of all 31 teams to visit. You'll be treated well. If you're a Vikings fan, don't worry about harassment. Most of us Packer fans remember Grandma's admonition: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything...
Excellent article Andrew. Although I would like to mention that you do have the option of having your steak cooked for you at Primequarter. ;)
As a lifelong resident of the G-B area you did a great job of assessing your time here. We have survived the blizzard that started yesterday. The weather of the past few days is a rare. I wish Ray Rice would hve been snowed in for this. Neighbors helping neighbors to shovel and snowblowing. Not as bad as he thinks. We will survive another snow fall. Now for the other nine months, I think you will agree it's pretty nice uphere. Lambeau is a very special place in the NFL. As a season ticket holder I have had many people from around the country sit near me at games. I'm amazed at what they go through to get a ticket. I think what Mr. Rice needs to do is get a ticket and experiance Lambeau from the stands. He might like it better than playing on it. Thanks Andrew and Thornberry is covered with snow too------------
I really don't understand the hoopla around this kid's comment. It's pretty obvious that Green Bay is not for everyone, and as a Packer fan I take no offense. In fact, Ray, if you should want to come play for us, allowing us to dump the mediocre back who thought he could hold out after 6 games for more money and now can't break a run longer than 10 yards, we'll welcome you with open arms.
Lifelong Packer fan. Mostly an east coast guy. They worry about their reputation in Green Bay. They fear players will not come there because of some of the perceptions of folks like Rice.
I love going to that city and Lambeau when I get the chance. It's one hell of a lot warmer there than most NFL cities, and if you don't understand what I mean by that...chances are you have never been there.
Thank you Andrew on behalf of my many friends in Green Bay, along with my many fellow Packer fan friends all over this world. That is our town, too, wherever we live, and we are proud of it.
Ray Rice is one of the classier running backs in this game. While hiis comment was made after a tough loss, saying that Green Bay a barren land is not terribly far from the truth. Anyway, he realized he spoke rashly and apologized for his comment. Professor Brandt, I know Ray Rice and (enrolled in your Sports Law class last year) and I can tell you you're wrong about Rice's character.
As a personal friend of Ray Rice's since we were in high school, Ray is a consummate professional. He works hard on and off the field, NEVER showboats, and manifests more respect for others than most NFL players.
He came from an extremely difficult and disadvantaged upbringing and is not one to demand "first-class travel, fancy steakhouses and five-star hotels." His father was killed in a drive by shooting when he was one year old and he has done everything to provide for his mother and siblings since then. His reputation should not be tainted by this frustrated comment. Frankly, admitting he was wrong should say more about his character.
Mark, I don't think Andrew was attacking Rays character, just presenting an arguement that Rays comments were offbase being very stereotypical of people outside of GB and WI... especially for someone who spent maybe 2 days there.
It all depends on how you took it, but Rays comments were seemed a little more harsh than worse than just "GB is barren"... He basically tried to take apart the entire culture and history of the city and organization while knowing NOTHING about either. All because he was frustrated someone actually shut him down.
Andrew, thanks for the kind words about Green Bay. But why no reference to the exceptional tennis players and beautiful views in Door County?
Charles Woodson plays piano? Man, how cool can this guy get? He's approaching Reggie White status.
I don't hold Rice's comments against him. He doesn't get it. That's fine. Not everybody does.
Andrew,
Nice article. I spent the first 40 years of my life in Wisconsin, and now live in New England. Although I've come to enjoy the Red Sox/Yankees rivalry, I would not have moved here were it not for Direct TV and the NFL package. Packer fans will have no trouble undestanding that.
Thank you Andrew for this article. Green Bay fans come from places that most people don't realize such as Illinois Minnesota, Michigan Iowa,Indiana places like Green Bay with midwestern
weather and small town people who just love their chance to go to Lambeau Field maybe once
every other year or so.I live in northern Il. and this week against the Bears is one of best times of the year for Green Bay fans and Bear fans. I would hope that Ray Rice about these traditions.
Great article Andrew. Green Bay is a special town with a special team, and there's no place i'd rather live, cold weather and all. And no fans are more hospitable to opposing team's fans than Packer fans are; if you ever want to take a road trip to see your team play a road game, you should come to Green Bay. You'll have a great time.
i agree with ray rice, why would anyone want to live in a place where you know your neighbors, there are no crack whores on the corners, the murder rate is the third worst in the united states, and the stadium team NEVER has to worry about a sellout and the best fans in football. Ray rice made for of the fact they had a police escort to the stadium. RAY that should be like a "home game" for rayray!
who is ray rice?
ray rice is a dirtbag. If he had an ounce of the class that every raven fan I ran into at lambeau on monday night had, he'd be ok. raven fans welcoem to lambeau ANYTIME, and for that matter so is MR 23 yards
Nice article Andrew, but I don't get why people are writing about his comments. So, he doesn't like GB. Big deal! I don't like a lot of places that other people love and vice versa. Of course, I would like to transplant a couple of GB residents to SE Florida to show people some manners and hospitality.
Andrew Brandt, once and always a class act. I miss seeing your name associated with the Packers. Thanks for your words.
Life long Packer Fan and a native cheesehead trapped in Minnesota, but a season ticket holder.
A lot of folks speak of the mystique of Lambeau Field, and it is a great place to watch a game but when you are sitting on aluminium bleachers in 18 degree weather it looses its charm in a hurry!
Doesn't it get cold in Mpls. and the east coast too. Come on football players, toughen up! We do live and breathe Packer football for sure! There's no place like Green Bay.
I enjoy reading the NFL Post because of the coverage the Packers receive. No East/West coast bias from what I see. I live in Missouri now but grew up in Green Bay and live and breathe the Pack. I try to get back for a game at least once a year. There is no place in the world like Green Bay and there are no better people. I'm very defensive about the arrogant media types who over the years have ridiculed the city as "Green Bush" and portray the locals as beer-swilling hicks. My memories of Green Bay? As a kid, during the days of TV blackout to all local markets, playing football in a friend's backyard, and knowing the score, down, and distance as we we could hear the roar of the crowd and Gary Knaflec's public address announcements from the stadium one block away! And I go back to Lambeau today and although the stadium has a new facade, the neighborhood and fan atmosphere is unchanged. Ray Rice couldn't begin to understand or appreciate what Green Bay means to football fans.
Thank you to Matt Bowen and Andrew Brandt in providing their perspective and also to others such as Madden, Ditka, Berman, et al who have always touted the unique atmosphere and special tradition of Green Bay and its beloved Packers.
As a Canadian, the only other place that I can see with a similar situation is Regina with the CFL's Saskatchewan Roughriders. A small northern city, community owned team, and incredibly (sometimes frighteningly) passionate fans.
As a Ravens fan, I would ask the people of Green Bay to forgive Ray Rice. These comments seem harsh, but Rice is a class act, through and through. Humble and hardworking and with lots of good things to say about the people around him, he is a pleasure to root for.
Keep in mind that the team went straight from the airport to the hotel, from the hotel to the game, and then from the game to the airport. All they see is the cold and the view from the bus or hotel window. That's not a flattering perspective of any northern city. The best thing about these cities is the people (as the article and comments above attest), and the Ravens didn't get to experience any of that. LT Jared Gaither (another class act), tweeted a pic of the view from his hotel window, and if that was my only perspective on the place, it wouldn't be very positive either.
A lot of people don't have much good to say about Baltimore either, but those who live there love the place. To each their own....
B'Jesus there are a lot of die-hard cheeseheads on this site! Did your neighbors take the Giants fans home after the NFC championship game? That would have been impressive.
Thanks for the kind words about my hometown. Moving with the Marine Corps till settling in the DC area eleven years ago, I'm regularly reminded that there's no kinder people than those that live and cheer for the green and gold. Thanks Green Bay, please do not ever change...
Oh, and if someone could provide Ray's contact information I'll personally deliver a couple of pounds of fresh curd and a twelve pack of pop... apology accepted.
Folks, Ray Rice is a very humble kid who does a lot for others. I would urge you to consider the timing of that question. Just after a loss where you didn't play extremely well, in addition to your playoff chances being severely weakened. He could have handled it better, certainly. To judge Ray on this small story wouldn't be fair to all of the good the kid has done in his life.
I live in Vancouver BC, truly the most beautiful city on earth but there is absolutely nothing better than a Packer weekend in GB. I've been back twice for games this year, once for Dallas + camp. it is almost unbelievable how many people in GB walk around every day in Packer Colors - all year! Its astonishing. I have been to many NFL stadiums and there is no other sports city in NA that supports a team like this. Say what you want about Dallas but when it comes to local fan support there is nothing like GB, and if you ever want to immerse yourself in NFL football and low stress fun loving people just take a trip to GB.
Now that said, It would def be a challenge for a young kid from a happening city to move to GB, but as andrew states, if they really love the game they come to love GB.
Andrew,
As a Wisconsinite for the majority of my 59 years, and a 55+ year Packer fan a hearty thanks for the perspective. I love Green Bay, what a great town. If it were out here in Montana it would vie for the State's largest city - it isn't that small. But no other city of Green Bay's size has a gem like the Packer organization, and it will never happen again in US pro sports. The players who have made greenbay there home, black and white seem truely pleased. I get a kick every time I read LeRoy Butler's weekly column in the JS (MLK) that he has become one of the major auto dealers in the Appleton - Green bay area, the second largest metroplex in the state.
I've done time in Baltimore, and while I'm sure I could find a way to enjoy it if I lived there, it wouldn't be my first choice. NY city I'm sure would be a trip to live in, but then I'd become a New Yorker - couldn't handle that! Life is always what you make of it. Even when that involves starting your car in -30 F weather in the snow covered conifer forests of Montana. Maybe it's hard winters that make people warm and football teams great. If so lets get ready for a new dynasty in Green Bay. Favre far away!
keep in mind? keep in mind nothing. i'm sorry but i don't care how hard working he is (and how do you know all of these personal attributes, are you his mother?) the guy isn't a "class act" and he most certainly is not "humble." people who could be described with such words don't open their mouths when they shouldn't...in fact they do the opposite. that's what being classy and humble is all about: not appearing like a juvenile jack-ass in front of the world.
that said, i grew up in appleton. i went to punk shows in green bay as a teen. i moved to milwaukee, boston, nyc and now chapel hill (raleigh-durham, triangle) and while green bay isn't a very self-selling city, how dense do you have to be not to understand Lambeau and the only organization in the NFL owned by the city? and you have the lack of foresight to actually talk smack about that? to the media?
dumb kid deserves every bit of criticism he gets.
rice is an idiot
This message paid for by the Wisonsin Department of Tourism and the Green Bay Packers.
Die hard Jets fan who got to attend his first Lambeau game in 06 - I remember being really pumped when the schedule game out and it was a Dec game.
Everything Andrew said was true - the town was awesome and the ppl are really friendly. I had a blast all weekend, and have never forgotten at halftime of the game (Jets 31-0) two Packer fans came up to me and my buddy (both decked out in Jets gear) and said "Man, you guys must be having a great time."
Definitely will be back in 2014.
@ Scott
C'mon, like you've never said anything you regretted? Gimme a break. The only difference is you didn't have a mic shoved in your face at the time. It was a poor choice of words at a bad moment, nothing more. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve criticism, or that he's hard done by being in the media spotlight, but jeez, cut the kid some slack. You sound like a Canadian with your hypersensitivity to criticism. I'm Canadian, I should know.
If you doubt his sincerity, check out his twitter page and get back to me...
He's even apologized a second time, fercripessake.
I grew up in Wisconsin. I have been a Packer fan since the early 50's. I will never forget a game I attended in 1965 that demonstrates the kind of people most Packer fans are. The Pack was playing the Baltimore Colts. Johnny Unitas was hurt. He wasn't suited up. Tom Matte, a halfback, had to play QB because Unitas backup, Earl Morrill?, was also hurt. It was a tough game for both teams. In the 4th quarter, with the gme going on I noticed the crowd on the top of pressbox side of the stadium standing and applauding. The standing and applauding went down from there like a wave and I noticed a man coming doiwn the stadium steps. By the time he got to the point where most people could see him it turned out to be Johnny Unitas and Packers fans were giving him a standing ovation during a game. That's big time respect for a great player.
I grew up in Wisconsin. I have been a Packer fan since the early 50's. I will never forget a game I attended in 1965 that demonstrates the kind of people most Packer fans are. The Pack was playing the Baltimore Colts. Johnny Unitas was hurt. He wasn't suited up. Tom Matte, a halfback, had to play QB because Unitas backup, Earl Morrill?, was also hurt. It was a tough game for both teams. In the 4th quarter, with the gme going on I noticed the crowd on the top of pressbox side of the stadium standing and applauding. The standing and applauding went down from there like a wave and I noticed a man coming doiwn the stadium steps. By the time he got to the point where most people could see him it turned out to be Johnny Unitas and Packers fans were giving him a standing ovation during a game. That's big time respect for a great player.
I've grown up and live in Illinois but have always been a Packer fan. For certain things, Wisconsin is a great place to be.
I remember the story when Reggie was recruited was that they took him to the Red Lobster for lunch and just leveled with him. "No clowns, no balloons" as Harlen called it, just straight talk.
All of this after being wined and dined at other potential teams for him.
The Packer organization sure has come a long way since Bob Harlen hired Ron Wolf. From one of the worst to one of the best. I remember around '87 Frank Deford advocated the Packers moving to Milwaukee following a number of high profile player scandals surrounding African American players. I guess all it takes are people with some vision and an intolerance for excuses.
ray rice plays in baltimore. this is like an onion article or something.
I really wouldn't take some off the cuff remarks after a really, really tough loss too seriously. He's still new to the league, they asked him how he felt at that moment and of course he was pissed.
Baltimore fans do know and appreciate Green Bay's history and tradition (we still wax nostalgic about the Colts all year, remember?). All I heard the week leading up to the GB game was how great Lambeau Field is what a historic place it is.
Anyway, point is, try to take his comments after that kind of game in context.
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for a nice article about Green Bay. Ray Rice's comments were that of a young pro athlete that doesn't get it probably due to a certain maturity level. I doubt if I were in the same situation at that age that I wouldn't have reacted in a similar fashion. Green Bay isn't for everyone and that's fine, we like it just the way it is. There isn't another place I would rather raise my family. Green Bay is a very warm community and most people here will give you the shirts off their backs. I challenge anyone to be stuck with a dead battery without someone coming to their rescue within minutes...stranger or not...LOL.
Thanks again Mr. Brandt. It's great listening to you on 107.5 every now and again. Keep up the great work.
Kindest Regards,
Michael
Mark-- Oh come on man. Ray rice has been providing for his mother and siblings since he was one? That sounds a bit extreme.
So he makes this comment and then backs off it with a couple apologies? Which is it Ray? Be a man and stand by your comments if you meant them.
I hope Ray Rice actually reads all of these comments because it should be a big dose of NFL reality for him.
I've seen many people talk about "look at the context of the comments". So I did.
Ray was pissed about the outcome of the game, that's understandable. Ray was asked about the stadium, etc. That's when his lack of (overall life) experience came out. (and don't worry, I get it, he had a rough upbringing and probably saw and did a lot while trying to make his and his families life better. That doesn't mean he's necessarily learned how to control his emotions in certain situations...but it sounds like there is hope) Ripping on the Packers, the Stadium and the Community isn't gonna make the outcome feel any better. All he did is make himself look like a fool to every NFL player or fan in the world. Even if you don't like cold weather, or small towns, or the colors green and gold(yellow) if you are an NFL fan you probably have some level of respect for the Green Bay Packers and their history.
Ray made himself look like a young guy who thinks the NFL revolves around him. Even if that's not what he thinks, that's how he sounded......to billions of people.
Mr Rice, I and most other Packer/NFL fans see the talent you have. We hope you have a positive career. But when people stick microphones in your face, and they will even more now-hoping you continue to puke all over yourself, before you answer ask yourself if anything positve can come out of what you are saying? If it will only look negative...keep it to yourself.
We appreciate the apology....accepted. You stated "you can't judge a book by its cover", well remember Ray, you are still writing your book. And the page you wrote after the Packer game will forever be written......
Ray Rice does not know much about Green Bay, NFL history or 12 World Championships. He will never get to wear the green and gold. He is just another kid playing football; no sense of the past, no sense of stadiums, no sense those who paved a path for his opportunities. In other words, no sense.
Ray Rice does not know much about Green Bay, NFL history or 12 World Championships. He will never get to wear the green and gold. He is just another kid playing football; no sense of the past, no sense of stadiums, no sense those who paved a path for his opportunities. In other words, no sense.
Took me awhile to read all the comments, but I really love the article. It proved to be very helpful to me and I am sure to all the commenters here! It's always nice when you can not only be informed, but also engaged! I'm sure you had fun writing this article.
very nice
thank you
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Andrew, very nice article. I lived in GB for 10 years, (77-87), and I truly love that town and its people. I wasn't a Packer fan when I moved there, but I'm hardcore now.
For a player living in a city of 100,00, life can be heaven or hell. There's no where they go that they're not recognized. But the people of Green Bay generally respect them, grant them as much privacy as they can, and honor those players every chance they get. For the young, single guys, the club scene is pretty much non-existant, but for the family guys, there is no better place to play. If you really want to just play football....
The winters are something else tho...
Thanks again, Andrew.