Williamses’ case remains unresolved

The league should use some commen sense on this issue. There was no competive advantage to taking a diet supplement. Plus they were at fault for not fully disclosing and having a drug hotline that did not function effectively.

Players with DUI's and woman abuse get 0 or 1 game suspensions and for this it is a 4 game suspension?

I think they should try to come to a reduced penalty agreement before the State ruling.

Thanks for the excellent explanation of the situation Andrew. This case makes me angry for some reason. I'm not sure whether it's because the meddling Minnesota judges are biased or activist. One way or the other, though, they took a banned substance. They should be suspended. End of story.

Great article Andrew. I have one question. Isn't it true that when a player joins the union, they agree to abide by the policies agreed upon by the union and the league? I don't understand how these players can argue against the rules they agreed to follow when joining the league. I have to believe the league is going to win this one.

The players have a great case against StarCaps for not providing a full list of ingredients on the bottle. And I agree with the players unhappiness with the league for not being proactive in regards to notifying players when they found that Bumetanide is an ingredient in StarCaps and that it is a banned substance. But if the players are allowed to get out of these suspensions, this will create major problems. Players are well aware that they are supposed to check with the league before taking any forgien substance. Had these guys taken the responsibility to do so, this would have never happened.

...an ingredient that masks the presence of steroids in a specimen...
That is all you need to know. Everyone in all our prisons is innocent (see 'The Shawshank Redemption')

I sincerely hope the suspensions are delayed until week 4 or 5. That would poke a much deserved hole in the 'Queens schedule.
Then Judge Crossdresser-in-Pigtails can see the harm he has done by being a homer.

Dan must be a Packer fan...... Are players not supposed to be able to trust what is listed as the ingredients in something they ingest or must they hire independent labs to test everything for them? Wouldn't that border on the absurd? I'm sure the players in question tested for something that is banned but what is the reasonable threshold of a player's accountability - in this case it seems that the manufacturer of StarCaps is the guilty party because they did not list the ingredient on their packaging. I just don't see a "Balco" like situation here with an over the counter item. The NFL needs to move on.

@Randal - the difference is that performance enhancing drugs speak to the fairness of the game. People might not like players who drive drunk or threaten their girlfriends, but that doesn't impact whether the games are honest and fair. If the NFL were to lose the faith (and I think it is faith, i.e. not founded in fact) of their viewers that the league had taken care of its steroid problem it would be in serious trouble. So for the CBA steroids are a bigger deal than DUIs at least from the perspective of the NFL.

Good article Andrew, as always.

Jack Ikegwuonu thinks this Starcaps case is taking a long time.

Thanks for the response Andrew.

I think one issue people are over-looking is that it is possible the Williamses took StarCaps to cover up possible steroid use. That is why they are facing a four game suspension. I know they said they didn't know Bumetanide was in StarCaps and they only took them to loose weight. But can anyone honestly tell me there is now way they are lying.

The NFL absolutely has to protect itself from steroids. That's why I agree with Walker. An NFL franchise is the most expensive type of sports organization to operate in the counrty. Baseball lost a lot of money because of steroids. If that happened to football, we would literally see some franchises possibly go under.

This is the same thing that happened prior. The Minnesota judge is a Queens ticket holder, and would rather be disbarred than suspend his beloved fat boys, the Williams. This will head to federal court, and we all know the chances of the judges there being a Queens fan is worse than if the case was presented in Guam.

Want to cut some weight? In the future rely less on pills, and just simply have one helping of scalloped potatoes, and not 15. Also, 15 helpings of scalloped potatoes is not a balanced dinner.

Even Abe Lincoln back in the 1860s knew how much lawyers were screwing up the justice system, hence his remark. If he had been able to visualize our system today, he would have been much more pointed in his remarks. If the courts are going to usurp the authority of the NFL, the result will be chaos. Justice delayed is justice denied, ALWAYS.

Andrew, what type of union is the player's union? Is it an open shop, closed shop, agency shop...?

Ultimately, the league should prevail in this case via the CBL. The Williamses action should be against StarCaps, not the NFL.

Andrew wrote in reply to:

"Can the Williamses play for the Vikings on opening day Sept. 13 at Cleveland?"

As of today, yes. But also as of today, their quarterback for that game is either Tarvaris Jackson or Sage Rosenfels. The next hearing is set for July 22. Stay tuned.

*

Yes, and in Game 4 with Favre vs. Green Bay, if the two DTs are NOT suspended.

Of course, with a suspension, the Williams will make their season debut in Week #5/Game 5.

Just a thought here: Didn't I read somewhere that the Williamses took Star Caps to lose weight/keep their weight down, so they could achieve some bonus (or was it to avoid some "target weight" penalty)?

Taking my thought a step further, do you suppose that by taking Star Caps, in order to shed weight and/or keep the weight off, they in fact gain a competitive advantage? I mean, a 340 lb Pat Williams probably moves better, has better stamina, etc... than a 360 lb Pat Williams.

IMO, they took the easy road by taking Star Caps. It's just a matter of time before they serve their suspensions.

On a related note, I have a lot more respect for sports figures like Manny Ramirez who, when they get caught, they own up to it and accept the consequences. Atheletes who screw up and don't want to take responsibility for their actions really put me off.

Great article.
Thanks

I have an idea. If the State of Minn does not want to allow them to be suspended, why not let them play all the games in Minn but once they are away from home they have to live by the rules of that state and sit the bench like the rest of the league players would. I know it won't happen, but at least they could get the 4 games out of them.

In your opinion, how will this affect the New Orleans players under the same Strarcaps case? Different state laws but it is hard to imagine the NFL suspending some players while litigation continues with players of the same base issue.

I think in the end, the courts will rule against them.

They knew they were responsible for what they put in their bodies
They knew Star Caps were not on the approved list
They knew they couldn't trust supplement labels
They knew it was a big risk
Their agents knew
1800 other NFL players managed to figure it out
They took them anyway, repeatedly.

The only thing the NFL didn't share was that instead of it being a high risk, it was closer to a certainty.

But since each batch of non-regulated supplements are slightly different, and the ingredients aren't listed, the NFL would be liable for a lawsuit from the Star Caps mfg unless they could prove what it contained. And since the mfg claims ignorance, the NFL had no way to make any such definitive claims about what was or wasn't in those Caps. All they could do was preach "buyer beware" for the last 5 years

If the Williams boys win this, the logical result will be that anything not specifically on the banned list is fair game for the players to take. Given how quickly new products hit the market and disappear, that would basically render the entire PED schedule and policy in the CBA moot. The burden simply must remain on the players to adhere to the policy. How some homer state judge can basically effectuate that nationwide policy change is beyond me, but this entire case is mired in very strange and rare technicalities of jurisdiction as much as anything else.

All you need to know is that this Minneapolis judge is elected. What do you think his reelection opponent would stress if he ruled against the players? Gary Larson is also the name of a Minnesota Viking's defensive tackle from the 1970s. I wonder....

And don't forget, if this gets appealed to the Minnesota Supreme Court, there sits Alan Page, former teammate of Gary Larson. Maybe not that particular Gary Larson, but I'll bet they're both Vikings fans.

The NFL has been very clear on these rules and has repeatedly warned players, agents, trainers. The Williams had all the information they needed to make the correct decision.

They knew they were responsible for what they ingested
They knew Star Caps were not on the approved list
They knew they couldn't trust supplement labels of unapproved suppliers
They knew it was a big risk, what was the reward ?
Their agents knew, their team knew
1800 other NFL players managed to figure it out
They took them anyway, repeatedly.

The only thing the NFL didn't share was that instead of it being a high risk, it was closer to a certainty.

But since each batch is different, and thisitem isn't listed, the NFL would be liable for a lawsuit from the Star Caps mfg unless they could prove exactly what ingredients it contained. And since the mfg of Star Caps claims ignorance, the NFL had no way to make any such definitive claims about what was or wasn't in those Star Caps.

All they could do was preach "buyer beware" repeatedly for the last 5 years and that is exactly what the NFL has done. The League also set up a list of approved suppliers so the players had a safe place to purchase. All of this escaped the Williams Bros in their quest for some un-named reward....and yes there are weight loss pills available on the approved supplier list.

If the state laws of Minnesota forbid the NFL from carrying out the terms of the collective bargaining agreement then why doesn't the NFL just suspend them for Away games that are played outside of the state?

If the State of Minnesota wants to take on the NFL, maybe the NFL should decide not to play any games in that state (Heck... the Vikings will probably move to Los Angeles anyway).

I think there are a few misunderstandings about this case. First, the Minnesota judge did not rule that the players cannot be suspended. He merely granted a temporary restraining order that says the league can't enforce the suspensions until the case is decided. This is only fair. If the players win the case but have already served the suspensions, the harm from their missing 4 games can't be undone.

But as Andrew pointed out, the players are unlikely to win the case. When they joined the league, they agreed to abide by the league's rules. All this judge is saying is that the punishment is temporarily suspended until the case is decided in court.

Also, one poster wrote that he was unhappy with a state judge "usurping the NFL's authority." The NFL is a business and, like any business, it has to abide by the labor and employment laws of states in which it operates. When it comes to questions of whether a business is in compliance with the law, it is the courts, not the businesses, that have the authority to decide the issue. The NFL is no exception.

Another poster said that if Minnesota won't give the NFL what it wants, then the NFL should pull out of Minnesota. On an abstract level, that's seems right. But the problem is that the NFL is really a fraternity of 32 owners. The other 31 owners won't screw over the Vikes owner like that, at least not over something like the Starcaps issue. If the Vikes do move out of state, as the poster suggested, the league might look long and hard at Minnesota's labor and employment laws before placing another franchise there.

Does the NFL test retired players who are negotiating comebacks and recently underwent shoulder surgery?

Hmm. The NFL pleaded that state law should govern in the Korey Stringer work comp case when they wanted a $250k ceiling on compensation to the widow. But now federal contract should govern when it is convenient for them, after their attorneys blew it and didn't check the state statutes (there were not that many states to check, guys) before negotiating a deal?

Looks like a lot of convenient positions by the NFL to me, along with bad faith, and a doctor who needs to lose his license because he decided to risk players' lives instead of advising that they had tested and found a dangerous, prescription-only drug illegally included in an over-the-counter supplement. Note that strict liability is not permitted in criminal cases (by Supreme Court decision) for any kind of serious issue (greater than parking or radar speeding tickets).

The NFL has had a lot of opportunities here to stop playing hardball and be reasonable, negotiating a limited penalty. Instead, they deserve to have their heads handed to them, just as the players union should be de-certified for threatening the salary cap, and the agents should all be decertified for their greed regarding high drafted rookie salaries. And no owner should ever get a taxpayer subsidy for stadium construction, especially these days when money is tight.

Sorry, Andrew. You have drunk too much champagne with the arrogant Goodell. This was a lousy and one-sided column that must have been written by NFL PR flacks.

If the entire ingredients were not upon the label, you cannot assume intent of the action in taking the banned item. Doing otherwise would be specious.

Andrew:
Let's say for the sake of argument that the Minny laws stop the Williams boys from being suspended in their home state.
Could the Vikings away game opponents then sue to try and apply their own state laws to have them suspended during away games???.... Ohio, Wisc., Mich, Penn., Mis.

How typical of our 'justice' system - they can't see the forest for all the trees in the way. As the professor and mike jolly pointed out, the players agreed to the rules but they also couldn't tell that the banned substance was in the product. Of course the NFL will never be able to keep up with testing every product on the market since all a company really has to do is make a insignificant change to the product and then relabel it to create a new product. New name, new face but same old problem. The NFL should create a list of approved products and tell the players that if they take anything else then the player is responsible.

The game these guys are playing about when a player can be tested is pure garbage - want to play in the NFL? Then they test you when they want to. Or go play in another league.

This case was originally driven by how ridiculous a 4-game suspension was under the circumstances -- namely, threatening to take out not one but both players in the heart of the Vikings defense on the eve of the playoffs, in a case where a comedy of errors by the NFL and the drug manuf largely contributed to the problem. Goodell should have exercised some restraint and nipped this in the bud, e.g., compromise at a 1 game suspension. Even now, I don't understand why the parties have not compromised.

Unfortunately, it seems the union has taken control of the case now and made it all about undermining the CBA and drug testing principles. To me, no matter how the case comes out there will be mischief done.

Being from Minnesota I feel gives me a little more insight into how our state employment laws work here as opposed to someone who does not and who only knows some of the slanted input they have received from others on the outside looking in.

The NFL needs to get over themselves already. I think their malicious and other low ball tactics stink! Bottom Line is the NFL DID NOT advise their membership about their being a banned substance in a known over the counter medication. It seems odd to me why they would withold information from their members and then turn around and play gotcha when thley supposedly catch someone breaking the rules.

I say the NFL screwed up. The courts of Minnesota say they screwed up. Minnesota is way ahead of the curve on this nonsense and has some very stringent laws in place to protect all workers in the state against these catch 22 nuances. If a player works in that state and pays income tax to that state then state law should apply plain and simple.

The NFL already has the semblance of a monopoly and everyone knows it but that is allowed thus far. Now they would like to place themselves above the law by making some omnipotent sweeping rulling nulifying or over riding laws at the state level. I say Bull roar! Now other professional sport front offices and their army of lawyers are indicating they want to side in with the NFL. You are darned right they do. They are scared to death that state law will take precedence over their bylaws.

I think the worm has turned. Finally the NFL has run into a combine they cannot bully or control and they don't like it one darn bit. At this point it does not matter how deep the NFL or any other professional sports pockets are. They can tie this up all they want to no avail.

I hope the Williams boys after they win and it is only a formality and a forgone conclusion at this point no matter what you read in some other rage,,,go after the NFL for damages or at least their court costs and bloated attorney fees. It is high time the NFL was put on notice and brought down a peg or two!

Tony Mandarich to the League: "I wish I had been a Viking...I could have taken the steroids AND kept off the water weight!" Minnesota courts become a shelter for drug users in the NFL. Justice is BLIND!