Diner morning news: Mangini’s big secret

I also wonder if it's because he has a big-time authority issue and needs to constantly remind his players he's in charge. Sure seemed that way when he loaded up the bus for his football camp in Connecticut.

This might be a bit far afield (though you seem to enjoy that) but Ron Chernow's book on Alexander Hamilton makes a great case for Hamilton being possibly the greatest subordinate (to Washington) ever, but tragically lousy as a principal. He was Washington's chief of staff during the Revolution, a key advisor, ally and surrogate for Washington through the Constitution, and then a fantastic Treasury Secretary (and, again, chief advisor) when Washington was President. But as soon as he lost Washington's leadership, things fell apart -- he was too headstrong, too personally ambitious, too insistent on winning every argument, big and small, and so determined to be right that he never learned from mistakes.

There are a lot of people like that, but Mangini seems to stand out among his colleagues (though it'll be interesting to see how Josh McDaniels' first full year goes). He seems only to have learned in NE what he wanted to learn, and so many of the non-Xs-and-Os things that people praise about Belichick (and please, no jokes here about cheating or video cameras, they're just so boring by now) seem to have been lost on him.

I also wonder if it's because he has a big-time authority issue and needs to constantly remind his players he's in charge. Sure seemed that way when he loaded up the bus for his football camp in Connecticut.

This might be a bit far afield (though you seem to enjoy that) but Ron Chernow's book on Alexander Hamilton makes a great case for Hamilton being possibly the greatest subordinate (to Washington) ever, but tragically lousy as a principal. He was Washington's chief of staff during the Revolution, a key advisor, ally and surrogate for Washington through the Constitution, and then a fantastic Treasury Secretary (and, again, chief advisor) when Washington was President. But as soon as he lost Washington's leadership, things fell apart -- he was too headstrong, too personally ambitious, too insistent on winning every argument, big and small, and so determined to be right that he never learned from mistakes.

There are a lot of people like that, but Mangini seems to stand out among his colleagues (though it'll be interesting to see how Josh McDaniels' first full year goes). He seems only to have learned in NE what he wanted to learn, and so many of the non-Xs-and-Os things that people praise about Belichick (and please, no jokes here about cheating or video cameras, they're just so boring by now) seem to have been lost on him.

totally agree, all the secrecy in football is ridiculous.
we can have reporters embedded with the troops in Iraq but every little thing in football is guarded?
where are our priorities?

What people never say is that Belichik GRADUALLY learned his behaviors and what gave him competitive advantage versus took away from his team's sense of certainty. He made his mistakes, both with management and players, and learned from it.

Mangini and others take their Patriots pedigree and think they can immediately re-create what took years to build in NE. You have to grow a culture in a franchise, not install it like a defensive package.

I think you're missing the point here...I believe he's guaging the ability of his team/staff to see "IF" they can keep this small thing a secret...and obviously, they cannot...

What is also forgotten about Belichik is that he was an assistant for 20 odd years prior to being a Head coach. Not the 10 that Mangini was or the 5 that McDaniels was.

I think that the wierdest thing about the Bilichick coaching tree is how these guys all think they are soo impressive right away, whether it's Mangini, McDaniel or Weiss, these guys all think that they are hot stuff, but there has been little to show for their work to this point, except regression in all their programs.

I think they all understand where they want to get to, as far as the relationship they have with their team, but I think they also need to objectively evaluate where they are and what that relationship is currently. I think as they grow to understand their teams better and their players understand them better, I think you are afforded the ability to use these Bilichick-ian type tactics, but these types of moves soo early on and with such an important part of the team doesn't bode well for the future.

Nice assessments, Lombardi. Until Mangini makes it a priority to communicate more effectively he'll net more failures than successes. It's disingenuous to the team that he waited this long. Come what may, the Vikings' defense should dominate the line of scrimmage. Of course, the Browns still have a chance because Brett Favre is the quarterback. I look forward to tonight's game. GO BRONCOS!!!

THe bellicheck coaching tree has been pretty awful, crennel, weis, mangini, mcdanials...

WCO when you find the 53 person organization that can keep a secret let us know. Cripes you can get anonymous quotes from Navy Seals.

The Browns were always my 2nd favorite team and I cried when they hired this mess.

Quick can anyone tell me if he was for Farve in NY with the Jets? You can't cuz he left enough tracks that he was before the trade before he was against it.

He's a political creature. Mayor-gini. He doesn't take a stand...he stands everywhere.

Good luck with him Cleveland.

This is an overblown load of crap by the media. I watched most of the inane Romeo Crennell press conferences, and I can tell you that Mangini covers more information in one presser than Romeo did in three years worth. Not revealing depth chart and injury information prematurely is smart. Every coach, including Childress does it in one form or another. The DB competition this year went long enough that Mangini just extended it into some game time uncertainty for the Vikings to deal with. It kills me how these coaches are so incorrectly portrayed by the apparently envious media. Some fans eat this up for some reason. Maybe it's human nature to take a shot at the smart guy in class. Even Mangini said this wouldn't necessarily make a big difference... that it would just require that the vikings spend a little more time preparing which might take time away from something else. Antoine Winfield recently said that this would require him to view 30 minutes for tape in preparing for the game. That's not much, but it's proof that this DID have at least some impact. I see nothing unreasonable about it.

I'm surprised Lombardi is hanging Mangini out to dry for it. He apparently has an ax to grind with Mangini. Seriously? "The most childish act" he's seen in20 years? Sensational writing there, Mike. The Cassel example has nothing to do with this. Cassel was the #2 in NWE. Of course he was going to start. Also, no one knew anything about Cassel anyway so what good would hiding it do? This article is a pure hatchet job. There must be some reason for Lombardi to spew all this hearsay about Mangini. Why?

I still wonder why Al Davis and the Raiders weren't mentioned by Lombardi this time...

If Mangini truly learned from Belichick, he'd be far better here in Cleveland than he was with the Jets.

"The Cassel example has nothing to do with this. Cassel was the #2 in NWE" This is not correct.

Cassel had a HORRIBLE training camp and was openly dissed by a national analyst. Pretty much every local media outlet was surprised he even made the team.

He came out and stunk his first couple games and Belichick was under intense pressure to bring in a veteran...make a trade...play the rookie...do anything but stick with Cassel.

Belichick was widely panned for being arrogant (as hard as it is to believe people called Belichick arrogant) by sticking with Cassel and openly declaring "he's my guy."

Lombardi's point is spot on in that Belichick went to every length to prop up Cassel and was, it seemed, the only person who believed in him.

Cassel was hanging by a string here, and you could make a strong case that it was the confidence that the coaching staff instilled in him, that gave him the traction to pull himself out of the hole.

It can be a fine line you know...this success failure thing. A very fine line. If Belichick had flinched; Cassel may have been out of the league. Instead he's a very rich starter.

Mangini should maybe worry more about spending 30 mts helping his QB by telling the world "he's our guy for better for worse" rather than worry about tricking Winfield (who by the way, I doubt will actually put in that 30 mts).

I agree, must have a score to settle, Mangini left him out of the last big story or something ! 20 years please this just doesnt add up, trying to make a mountain out of a molehill !!!! Yes he has been trying to use it as an advantage know matter how small when you have the weaker team use do what you can within the rules and thats all he has done, no Biggy except for the press and a few impatient fans, It sure drew alot od attention ayyy,,,maybe he is smarter than you think Mr Lombardi , got you onboard ayyyyy !!!!!!!!!

Airal...

If bellicheck has an ax to grind....lombardi will grind it....i mean..u want to talk childish..look at mcdaniels....but.lombardi would never knock because hes afraid of bellicheck

mark f, I disagree that it's a "spot on" comparison. Naming your backup after an injury to your starter is simply not the same as naming your starter for the season after a legitimate, thorough QB competition. You ignored my statement about how since no one knew anything about Cassel, that it didn't matter if BB announced it because Cassel was an unknown as were the other possible backups (O'Connell, Gutierez). Gutierez had been cut. O'Connell was a raw rookie. Also, Cassel had been Brady's backup for three seasons at that point. Belichick spilled the beans by putting Cassel in when Brady went down. The Jets knew it would be Cassel as did everyone else. There was no other logical choice. There was no mystery there other than the question of how Cassel would perform which was something no one could predict. It just is NOT comparable to this Mangini situation where there are two clear options.

How does telling the world that "he's our guy" help his QB prior to Game 1? More reps? Nah, both QB's got plenty of work from May on and too many reps give QB's dead arms. Ask Tim Couch. Too much pressure? Nah, competition is good. Now that Quinn is named (allegedly) Mangini will stick with him (per Mangini), so Quinn won't have to look over his shoulder unless he really starts playing poorly in which case a switch might be needed. Another side benefit of this QB competition is that we have a better prepared backup as a result. Quinn needs REAL game experience running this offense now, not practice time or vanilla pre-season game time. There's no substitute.

I'm just not buying why this issue of naming the QB late is so alarming to you guys... unless it's just Mangini hating. If that's the case, admit it.

yahoodave, I hadn't thought of that. The long arm of the hoody is strong. I didn't realize Lombardi cowered under it. It's a bit hypocritical, for Lombardi to go ape-$hit over Mangini's subterfuge when Belichick is the master at the same strategic paranoia. Selective disapproval at the very least.

The only thing Mangini can do to diffuse this hatred is to win so he can serve crow. That's a tall order with what he inherited, but it seems to me he's off to a good start. Adding 6 ex-Jets on D who all played active roles on a Jets D ranked 7th in the NFL against the run, to a Browns D ranked 14th against the pass should help if some young pass rushers also emerge. Consistent QB play will be critical for a still talented offense to rebound. A lot of big if's still here in Cleveland still though... which isn't the debate here.

Do you really think the team hasn't known for weeks Lombardi? I'm just some fan living 2 hours away from cleveland and I knew two weeks ago. One of my 'sources'(friend of a friend inside the organization) said that Mangini told the QB's Quinn was the man two weeks ago, and told the rest of the team that same day. Get a grip dude and stop trying to grind your issues out in your articles/blogs.