Tavern talk: Learning from experience

Bears wasting timeout on 12 men on the field challenge/hope (replay showed 12th man was off field several seconds before snap). Had Cutler not thrown pass to Al Harris they may have needed that timeout.

How about Gary Kubiak?

About 2:40 left in the first half, pinned inside his own ten. He settles for running off as much time as possible. 3 and out, followed by a punt. The Jets are set up at midfield but do not score.

If the Texans go three and out, the Jets will have about 2 minutes left. Time will not be a factor in whether they score. If the Texans convert a first down, then they will want that time back as theyt seriously try to drive for a score (they were down 10-0 at the time). KIlling time cannot be optimal.

The number one cause of preventable losses caused by coaches comes from trying to kill the clock well before you have any business doing so.

I have a In tonight's game, there was a very blatant move by an official to directly benefit the Patriots. On the Patriot's 1st TD drive in the 4th quarter, they faced a 2nd and 10 at the 35 1/2 yard line. The receiver caught the ball and was down at the 26 1/2 yard line. Mike Tirico says after the guy catches the ball and is tackled...'a yard shy of the first down.' The red line on the screen marking the ball position was left of the yellow line signifying the firat down line at the 25 1/2 yard line. The big arrow on the screen shows 3rd and 1. This stays on the screen for almost 10 seconds. Then all of a sudden Tirico says something like "It's a first down. That was a very good spot they got."

How can the league let this slide? Equally as important, why aren't any sportscasters or writers saying anything?

Congratulations to (drum roll please) BRAD CHILDRESS. I think this is the first week in your coaching career you didn't make the list. As a Vikings fan, I dread late game situations when the score is close.

I believe that the Bengals called the time out before the review with 41 seconds left. I will have to check NFL Game Rewind to be certain. Does anyone else remember it that way?

In the second Monday night game, San Diego had only one time out left down 20-17. They allowed the clock to tick down while getting ready to run a play from shotgun, going no huddle. Tom Cable went running down the field trying to call a timeout. San Diego could not run the ball in this situation because if they did not score, they would have to use the their last timeout and would risk losing the game if a sack or pass short of the end zone happened subsequent to the use of that last timeout. Plus they were not going to run after going no huddle, they would want to take a shot to win the game, save the timeout in case of a sack or to set up the field goal, if they threw short. Cable by using that timeout left 18 seconds on the clock, played his hand and gave San Diego the game.

San Diego came out single back to the left of the quarterback - it was a Patriots play all the way - fake slot screen, hand off on the draw and a touchdown. Cable called a timeout to prepare his team to play the pass and, by calling that timeout, gave the Chargers the easy playcall - they ran because Oakland was playing the pass. If they were stopped short, call timeout, and either take a shot into the end zone or kick the field goal.

Both Monday night games - the biggest difference between those teams, aside from the quarterbacks, was the coaching.

Nothing to do with time management but to add on to dave brown's comment. How about the reversal on Louis Murphy's first TD? He clearly had possession and both feet down in the end zone. Also, one of the Patriot's DL sacked Edwards; it was a clean sack in which the DL took no more than a half step before hitting the QB and he clearly avoided falling on top of Edwards and yet was called for Roughing the Passer. This was on third down and extended the drive. Does the NFL have a system in place to fine the referees or in some way reprimand them for such blatantly obvious mis-calls?

Mike- About the Bengals....

They took that timeout because it seemed that the play wasn't going to be reviewed. Then, the officials decided to review the play, and upheld the call on the field.

Why was timeout still taken from the Bengals? Since it became an "official review" (as it should have been from the start), then the timeout shouldn't have been taken away. More importantly, the time that the officials put back on the clock would not have happened.

So, the Bronocs would have had the ball with about 20 seconds less to start. In this case, I don't think Marvin screwed up- He was making sure the officials reviewed the last play (which they weren't doing before he called TO).

In the second Monday night game, San Diego had only one time out left down 20-17. They allowed the clock to tick down while getting ready to run a play from shotgun, going no huddle. Tom Cable went running down the field trying to call a timeout. San Diego could not run the ball in this situation because if they did not score, they would have to use the their last timeout and would risk losing the game if a sack or pass short of the end zone happened subsequent to the use of that last timeout. Plus they were not going to run after going no huddle, they would want to take a shot to win the game, save the timeout in case of a sack or to set up the field goal, if they threw short. Cable by using that timeout left 18 seconds on the clock, played his hand and gave San Diego the game.

San Diego came out single back to the left of the quarterback - it was a Patriots play all the way - fake slot screen, hand off on the draw and a touchdown. Cable called a timeout to prepare his team to play the pass and, by calling that timeout, gave the Chargers the easy playcall - they ran because Oakland was playing the pass. If they were stopped short, call timeout, and either take a shot into the end zone or kick the field goal.

Both Monday night games - the biggest difference between those teams, aside from the quarterbacks, was the coaching.

Nothing to do with time management but to add on to dave brown's comment. How about the reversal on Louis Murphy's first TD? He clearly had possession and both feet down in the end zone. Also, one of the Patriot's DL sacked Edwards; it was a clean sack in which the DL took no more than a half step before hitting the QB and he clearly avoided falling on top of Edwards and yet was called for Roughing the Passer. This was on third down and extended the drive. Does the NFL have a system in place to fine the referees or in some way reprimand them for such blatantly obvious mis-calls?

Couldn't agree more with the Bills. Dick Jauron struggles with game day clock management badly. Being they practiced all off-season in the no-huddle like you said, I thought they would prepare them for situations like this. I think it's a sense of panic on Jauron's part. He needs to do it better, or else just let Edwards do it himself. With Edwards calling his own plays now, he sure looks like he knows what he's doing. Might as well, let him just run the entire offense.

Great catch on the Bengals mistake. And to the Bengals defnders, why would they want to have th play reviewed? Ball is basically at the one inch line, you have to like your odds of scoring and burning some time off the clock, no?

Mike hits it on the head, just as I pointed out in the drive from a few years ago that Mike featured a while back: the Bengals look like they were unprepared to succeed. Coaching situational football is what separates the wheat from the chaff in the NFL.

Cable called the time out with less than 20 seconds to go because the Raiders had 12 men on the field. Obviously, the D staff failed to manage their personnel properly, so your coaching point is valid, but Cable was smart to call the TO, it kept the Chargers from having a free play, saved 5 yards, and the clock would have stopped on the penalty anyway.

Jerry Macdonald noted this on his twitter:
http://twitter.com/jerrymcd

Great article.
Thanks

I agree completely with the Notre Dame part of the article. When I was watching the game I was saying how terrible those calls were. Even if they aren't getting the first down, you run the ball and at least force Michigan to burn timeouts. TERRIBLE.

The Chiefs had a head-scratching moment at the end of the first half where they decided to pass on good field position and ample time to try and move the ball for a field goal. Instead they killed the clock and went in to halftime. Very, very conservative move.

Jon Love Ya Bro Gruden said he would onside kick so I can't kill the Bills for going with the hands team there. And despite the fact that they fumbled, I liked that he ran the kick out. Time magagement wise, taking it out would get them to the 2-minute warning and take away a clock stoppage for the Patriots. Its just ashame he didn't get down once he got back to the 20 or so.

I don't think the Bengal timeout was overly critical. The Bengals were focused on scoring the touchdown, which they should have been. Apparently they wouldn't have been charged the timeout if something was overturned on the review, but since nothing was overturned, they were charged the timeout. Bizarre rules.

The Bizarre Stokley play could have occurred as easily with 1 second left on the clock ... time wasn't the biggest factor ... stupid defense was.

I noticed a player or two from the Broncos sideline stepped onto the field celebrating as Stokley was running down and across the field ... shouldn't that have been reviewed for too many men on the field?

Yeah, I agree the Bengals made a mistake with the timeout but lets say they score with :20 seconds on the clock. Under this scenario the Broncos still would have had about :10 seconds for what was the decisive play in the game. The bigger problem on the Stokley play was Roy Williams going for the big hit on Marshall as opposed to staying deep enough to tackle Stokley after the deflefction. On that play Hall deflected the pass and Crocker was in position to tackle Marshall. If Williams stays where he was supposed to in the zone the worst thing that happens is Stokley catches the ball at the Denver 45, Williams tackles him and the Broncos have to use their final timeout. The counter argument obviously is if Cincy made Denver use its final timeout before the Bengals took the lead then a completed pass in bounds near midfield would have ended the game. This is all a long way of saying both the timeout and misplay by Williams contributed to the loss but Williams' lack of discipline was much more critical in the outcome of the game, than Marvin Lewis calling a timeout with :41 seconds to make sure there was a booth review on the reception by Andre Caldwell.

I agree with the 12-men timeout of Chicago being a waste, but is there ANY doubt that the center INSISTED that that was the case, and the reason for him improvising the play? Lovie was between a rock and a hard place on that one.
What aggravates me beyond belief, on a related 12-men-on-the-field call, is the penalty that was called by the official in the Raiders-Chargers game. YOU DON'T GET THAT FLAG WRONG! If an official throws that flag, and then the count reveals 11 Men, he should lose his job, because he is making a penalty call on something he never actually saw.
You make the team kicking throw the flag and challenge the number of men on the field. You don't speculate that their might have been an extra man.
That flag doesn't come out of the official's pocket unless he KNOWS he sees 12.

Part of the analysis on the Bills is dead wrong. At your 40, 2 timeouts, and just :37 left, you should definitely use the timeout after a medium-to-long gain. Guys are still all over the place downfield. You're going to burn an extra 10 seconds at best, maybe 15--out of your meager :37 just getting everyone back and lined up. Time is scarce and needed to run successful plays--you can't save your timeouts for potential sacks or even a potential FG with a running clock. If you get sacked twice there, then you lose no matter what you do with timeouts. This isn't a big one, but if you're going to make such a big deal out of situational decision making, Mike, you should get it right.

Oh, and Trent Edwards should throw the ball away instead of getting sacked!